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NForce vs Leaseweb vs Serverius
Hello, we're setting up a small VPN provider and looking for opinions based on recent experiences on colo'ing with one of those 3 DCs. Some things that are particularly important:
Network quality outside EU (Asia, North America), support quality, willingness to forward abuse reports to us instead of shutting us down immediately
We have price quotes from all 3 and they're all roughly in the same price range. I can find reviews of NForce pre-acquisition, from Serverius 5 years ago, and almost none from Leaseweb, but nothing recent
Comments
Before considering NFOrce please check up on their terms, especially the well hidden 12 months contract you signup for..
Their network used to be good, after they got bought up though they've gone backwards quite a bit on the network front, no investment into hardware and transits being withdrawn.
Serverius is cheap but in my experience not super stable on that network front, when it works it is decent though.
Leaseweb would be the better option of the 3.
really?
sucks, they were known for their high-quality network, even here (and they're not low end in terms of pricing)
The NForce contract is monthly, Serverius and Leaseweb are 12 month contracts. In terms of pricing they're all roughly in the same range but Serverius is cheapest and Leaseweb is the most expensive. Also Leaseweb's support seems to be the least approachable but I have only had limited interaction
You can have a monthly contract with Leaseweb, it just costs a bit more per month.
Another thing that came up is Leaseweb sales say they log incoming/outgoing IP connection pairs, NForce and Serverius said they don't. For liability reasons this is important
Nforce was (and maybe still is) the best for game server hosting due to premium blend network. Leaseweb is tough with abuse. VPN may have massive abuse rate.
Yes we do have a higher abuse rate due to offering anonymous sign up. The more I read about Leaseweb the less it seems like a sustainable long term option. I think at this point its NForce vs Serverius and I haven't heard good things about either one's network quality
I wouldn't go into it without my own IP space and ASN.
It seems difficult to me to be subject to a third party's tolerance regarding abuse management.
I imagine that could lead to a lot of abuse. And I'm not sure you're a big enough customer for them to want to bother with that.
I'm not trying to demotivate you, just to open the discussion on this !
This is only a passion project, not for profit, so we're willing to take the risk/pain
But because we have day jobs we need someone who is willing to be patient with abuse reports and not require immediate response
If anyone has recent (post acquisition) experience with NForce network (and especially how it compares to Serverius) please let me know
Indeed, if it's not for profit, then it would represent too big an investment.
Otherwise, I've had good experience with Leaseweb but never any abuse, so I have no idea on that point
Good luck !
Some time ago, LeaseWeb stopped working with individuals. Also their support contract is not cheap. Prices is also not so cheap. Except above, everything is just fine.
Did they close signups for new induviduals or did they actually kick out existing ones?
Be aware of Serverius's confidentiality terms and their history of making up restrictions that aren't a part of the initial agreement and aren't written anywhere.
There was some drama a couple of years ago. If I remember right, they offered cheap cloud storage (one-time payment) and changed the terms several times during a few days without applying to their own terms and then made up restrictions so their customers could not retrieve their data.
When people started to post evidence on LET they terminated people's services for breaking the confidentiality terms.
I googled the thread for you:
https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/175691/serverius-net-free-1tb-1-setup-fee-eurostack-cloud-storage/p1
This is not something I’d get into without my own IP Space.
IPs are valuable. Chances are nobody will rent them out and accept the abuse that comes with VPNs.
We have already notified both providers about the model and both said it was okay with them. We can obtain our own IP space (through lease) but the question about network quality remains
I could not say exactly because we don't had account as individuals.
As any provider they are free to terminate contract with announcement. This happened with business customers from Russia and Belarus as far as i know.
PS. Yes, their registration form, at least for dedicated servers, require you list business details (Company name, VAT etc.)
Worldstream not an option?
They don't lease out anything less than a full rack from what I understand
https://www.worldstream.com/en/dedicated-servers suggests that they can definitely do individual servers.
I will reach out to them but I'm not very optimistic. There were other posts on this forum about them not accepting smaller colo. Anyone know how their network quality and willingness to work with us on abuse reports compares to NForce and Serverius?
Serverius rock-solid network
Unfortunately yes - Their network quality has dropped dramatically with even their internal networks being congested these days, or well at was before we moved over 300Gbit out of NZS, it might not be congested anymore
2 years ago they had a mix of 8 upstreams, with only 1% of the network mix being cogent, now they have 5, where 1 isn't being actively used and cogent is 60-70% of their mix, meanwhile the price they charge for traffic has doubled to a point where they are 2-3x the price of their competitors while offering an inferiour experience, before we left back in June 2023 we did extensive testings with 100 volunteers worldwide with Leaseweb, Hetzner, Clouvider, our own network and NFOrce, of those networks every single test user had worse throughput on the NFOrce network.
Thats actually precisely what they want you to think, however that isn't the case.
As per 4.4 in their ToS:
"Unless otherwise agreed, the service agreement starts on the date the service is activated and lasts for a minimum of 12 months(“initial period”). After the initial period, the agreement will automatically renew for additional 12-month terms, unless one party provides written notice of termination at least 30 days before the current term expires or unless agreed otherwise in writing. Both parties understand that the agreement will continue to renew automatically, unless it's terminated in accordance with the agreement's terms and conditions."
Everything they sell is billed monthly but you are being forced into a 12 months contract, which will autorenew for 12 months, there's no way out of those contracts its either, accept a new 12 month contract or terminate your services and leave.
Atleast serverius/leaseweb are upfront about the contract and even allow you to have a monthly contract.
I do not have fresh sets of tests from serverius, what I've heard from other parties in NL is that their network is solid when its up but generally face more issues than "normal".
@khnielsen do you still have the data of those tests? Or at least know how the other major providers ranked?
I should have them still, somewhere.
It was however leaseweb in front, clouvider/our own network second, hetzner not too far behind and nforce dead last by a decent margin on average, especially Asia users had massive issues at the time with nforce.. That said, after we left in June I've not used their network and I have no intention either, from what I hear it's only gone further in the sink
which is a shame, we used to praise them and we were honestly happy hosting there, new management ruined that.
You know when a company gets new management and all employees flee then somethings up which is what happened there 😂
Any reason you didn't consider Serverius at the time?
they're not known for having a nice facility or a nice network.
Other VPN providers such as ProtonVPN use WorldStream. If I’m right NordVPN does as well. ProtonVPN also has servers at NFOrce.
Thanks for the info!
I agree that it sucks. It just to be the case that whenever someone needed a great network, they were never a bad recommendation.
For production-level use, I'd go with Leaseweb. However, it may not be suitable for your usage, as Leaseweb is very strict about abuse. Their support team is the best.
I have been using serverius for some years and have had no issues with their network. Abuse get sent to you and you have time to resolve it, otherwise they will do it for you.