Choosing a platform for checkout (moving from PayPal)

c1vhosting

@WiFi said:
Guys! I have a question to discuss. Hosting providers should be aware of this issue, since our businesses are very similar in this regard. So I'm posting this question on "LET" and I hope I'm not breaking anything.

We have a website that acts as a repository for digital content (files, licenses, software, etc.), where we sell it. We have near 30–40 transactions per month, with a monthly turnover of $5,000.

The current payment platform is PayPal, which is the most common for the North American market, where everyone has PayPal and all major credit cards are accepted.

In general, everything works acceptably, and one could even put up with PayPal’s commission of about 4.6%. However, we have a more serious problem.

The fact is that some of our goods cannot be returned (since the return is not supported by the original content provider/copyright holder), and, accordingly, refunds are not possible for them. Also, some users prefer to download some digital goods and then return the money (in fact, this is fraud on their part).

The client opens a case with PayPal, then transfers it to the claim. We upload all the evidence of using the service, all the client’s logs, and all support conversations with him (even when the client admits that he is wrong!), but PayPal in 90% of cases makes a decision in favor of the client.

And PayPal deducts from:

• 100% of the funds received from the client
• About 20 or 25 dollars for processing a case—I don’t remember exactly.
• There is also some kind of fee.
• Plus, we lose the amount we paid to the content provider.

In total, we lose about 180–230% of the selling price of the goods!

In this regard, I would like to find another payment platform where there are no refunds without our consent at all or where refunds are carefully and impartially considered by an independent arbitration of the payment platform. At the same time, it would be nice if the platform commission was around 1-2.5% and not 4.6–5%, like PayPal.

Do you have any advice from your real experience?

PayPal disputes are handled by automatic tools, always letting the buyer win. We solved the problem, but you have to argue with PayPal.

JosephF

@WiFi said:
Thus, I believe the problem is actually something else. In the USA, there is a developed cult of refunding payments if the client is dissatisfied with something (and it doesn’t matter what exactly! this is often not even asked!). The principle "the customer is always right" in action, view from the client's side. Therefore, we see thousands of Karen of different genders who everywhere demand attention to themselves, a refund for any reason, plus the opportunity to keep the goods. And services like Amazon have made a huge contribution to the corruption of the consumer society in North America.

It was very common for American vendors to officially offer and advertise a no-questions asked 30-day return policy for any reason even before Amazon existed. Amazon, though, made it almost ubiquitous.

I don't see anything wrong with merchants offering such a return policy to consumers. If that is the terms of sale that both the merchant and consumer agreed upon, then it is fair and valid for it to be utilized by customers.

Of course this is offered because competitiveness almost requires merchants to offer it in order to compete with others that already offer it. Eventually consumers came to expect it and many won't purchase from merchants without a liberal return policy.

By the way, other regions, like the UK and China, do not bother to hide their desire to get everything for free, and the Chinese simply ask to give them everything for free, and the British engage in fraud without hesitation. I don’t want to offend anyone, but we have statistics for 10–15 years, and they are like this. I didn’t want to offend any nation; these are just conclusions from our big statistics.

​

Are you implying that there's much more fraud engaged in by British consumers than by American consumers?

@c1vhosting said:

PayPal disputes are handled by automatic tools, always letting the buyer win. We solved the problem, but you have to argue with PayPal.

How did you solve the problem?

chiccorosso

PayPal give trustness to final client. Value to move in PayPal gateway, the commission cost arriving in 1.2%

Try stripe or Mollie for credit card.

webmaster24

A fairly common choice is Stripe, even if their Chargeback policy became a little worse for vendors.

davide

@webmaster24 said:
A fairly common choice is Stripe, even if their Chargeback policy became a little worse for vendors.

Why? From Stripe's docs I read they offload the whole arbitrage to the buyer's payment processor.

WhiteRoseG

Just send an invoice

JosephF

@webmaster24 said:
A fairly common choice is Stripe, even if their Chargeback policy became a little worse for vendors.

How did it become worse?

@davide said:

Why? From Stripe's docs I read they offload the whole arbitrage to the buyer's payment processor.

How does that help (and who benefits)?

webmaster24

@JosephF "Stripe has decided not to return $15 to merchants whether they win or lose the dispute." ; "With Stripe's recent update, no dispute money will be refunded to the seller regardless of whether they win or lose the dispute. And this, again, will come into effect from June 2023. "

"Whether you win or lose a dispute, Stripe incurs a fee. To cover these costs, starting October 15, Stripe will no longer return the fee for successfully contested disputes."
https://support.stripe.com/questions/october-2023-pricing-updates-for-global-standard-pricing-users

So, not saying that it's Stripe's fault but it became worse for sellers, especially if you sell low cost items. A few trolls, or weird customers, can make you lose a lot of money.

webmaster24

@davide said:

@webmaster24 said:
A fairly common choice is Stripe, even if their Chargeback policy became a little worse for vendors.

Why? From Stripe's docs I read they offload the whole arbitrage to the buyer's payment processor.

No, you will now pay the $15 dispute fee no matter what. Not entirely their fault, but vendors end up paying anyway. See my post above as well.

"Whether you win or lose a dispute, Stripe incurs a fee. To cover these costs, starting October 15, Stripe will no longer return the fee for successfully contested disputes."

https://support.stripe.com/questions/october-2023-pricing-updates-for-global-standard-pricing-users

PineappleM

These changes apply to Stripe accounts in Australia, Brazil, Canada, Hong-Kong, India, Singapore, Thailand, New Zealand, Malaysia, Japan and the UAE. The dispute fee amount is not changing.

Notably, the USA and European nations are missing.

webmaster24

No, that was only regarding October's update. I'm not US based but I followed the different cases.

Since June 1st 2023 this became the norm for US vendors:
"Disputes fee: Regardless of whether a dispute is won or lost, Stripe incurs a fee. To cover these costs, Stripe will no longer return the $15 dispute fee for successfully contested disputes. The dispute fee itself is not changing. "
https://support.stripe.com/questions/h2-2023-stripe-issuing-pricing-updates

You can read some people talking about that back then:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35073515