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Is Cloudlinux really necessary?
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Is Cloudlinux really necessary?

Hello everyone,
I am considering providing shared web hosting. Is cloudlinux really necessary for this? What are the drawbacks of providing shared web hosting without Cloudlinux?

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Comments

  • Isolation is important in shared environments.

  • MannDudeMannDude Host Rep, Veteran

    CloudLinux isn't the only solution to this anymore. If using DirectAdmin, I think their Pro-Pack + Bubble Wrap would be worth considering as well, though I've not messed with it much.

    Thanked by 2thecreator_ mrTom
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited April 2023

    It’s better for hosts than it is for customers. The ability to burst high resource usage is important, but preventing it is important to massive overselling. I usually assume if someone is advertising it, they’re telling me they pack boxes as hard as they can.

    Which is fine, tbh. But if I’m looking for above average in performance and I’m willing to spend to get it, I’m not spending more money and choosing a host that brags about using it at the same time.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • emghemgh Member

    @jar said: It’s better for hosts than it is for customers. The ability to burst high resource usage is important, but preventing it is important to massive overselling. I usually assume if someone is advertising it, they’re telling me they pack boxes as hard as they can.

    Well, couldn't a client with "a bad configuration file" make a whole server fumble without it?

    Thanked by 3jar wdmg thecreator_
  • HxxxHxxx Member

    Yes, don't use shared hosting that does not use cloudlinux + cagefs. Period.
    No disadvantages.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @emgh said:

    @jar said: It’s better for hosts than it is for customers. The ability to burst high resource usage is important, but preventing it is important to massive overselling. I usually assume if someone is advertising it, they’re telling me they pack boxes as hard as they can.

    Well, couldn't a client with "a bad configuration file" make a whole server fumble without it?

    Yeah, but the ability to burst is important enough that it justifies taking that risk. Maybe if you only applied limits to accounts that were abusive that would be okay, but most providers just use it to set low ceilings for everyone instead.

    Thanked by 2emgh thecreator_
  • emghemgh Member
    edited April 2023

    @jar said:

    @emgh said:

    @jar said: It’s better for hosts than it is for customers. The ability to burst high resource usage is important, but preventing it is important to massive overselling. I usually assume if someone is advertising it, they’re telling me they pack boxes as hard as they can.

    Well, couldn't a client with "a bad configuration file" make a whole server fumble without it?

    Yeah, but the ability to burst is important enough that it justifies taking that risk. Maybe if you only applied limits to accounts that were abusive that would be okay, but most providers just use it to set low ceilings for everyone instead.

    Or:

    Set formal limits in plans.

    Set actual limits in config (maybe 3-4x formal limits).

    Warn users who pass formal limits too often and ask if they can limit their usage or if they'd prefer to lower their technical limits.

    Technical limits far higher than formal limit (or allowed limit) to allow for bursting but protect other clients.

    Thanked by 2jar thecreator_
  • MannDudeMannDude Host Rep, Veteran

    @jar said:

    @emgh said:

    @jar said: It’s better for hosts than it is for customers. The ability to burst high resource usage is important, but preventing it is important to massive overselling. I usually assume if someone is advertising it, they’re telling me they pack boxes as hard as they can.

    Well, couldn't a client with "a bad configuration file" make a whole server fumble without it?

    Yeah, but the ability to burst is important enough that it justifies taking that risk. Maybe if you only applied limits to accounts that were abusive that would be okay, but most providers just use it to set low ceilings for everyone instead.

    I'd say most providers list the limits somewhere, at least the reputable ones.

    We list our CloudLinux limits publicly. I don't see it any different than VPS hosting in that regard. You get the resources that you pay for and if you need more to burst from time to time, you purchase the plan that can accommodate it. (Just as you would with a VPS or similar)

    Thanked by 2jar thecreator_
  • emghemgh Member

    As I've said a hundred times though and still strongly believe:

    The implementation of addon domains across panels is terrible.

    cPanel should never have set that trend and other panels should never have followed.

    That feature alone has caused so many managed hosting providers so much pain.

    One hacked WP site slowly spreads to more, you think you've cleaned it, no, it's hidden in another site, slowly spreading to more.

    It should have been isolated from the start.

  • emghemgh Member
    edited April 2023

    @MannDude said:

    @jar said:

    @emgh said:

    @jar said: It’s better for hosts than it is for customers. The ability to burst high resource usage is important, but preventing it is important to massive overselling. I usually assume if someone is advertising it, they’re telling me they pack boxes as hard as they can.

    Well, couldn't a client with "a bad configuration file" make a whole server fumble without it?

    Yeah, but the ability to burst is important enough that it justifies taking that risk. Maybe if you only applied limits to accounts that were abusive that would be okay, but most providers just use it to set low ceilings for everyone instead.

    I'd say most providers list the limits somewhere, at least the reputable ones.

    We list our CloudLinux limits publicly. I don't see it any different than VPS hosting in that regard. You get the resources that you pay for and if you need more to burst from time to time, you purchase the plan that can accommodate it. (Just as you would with a VPS or similar)

    With a VPS you've got SWAP though.

    And processes etc aren't limited in the same way.

    I understand what you're saying and I agree but there's differences making it somewhat different.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • FatGrizzlyFatGrizzly Member, Host Rep

    @emgh said:

    @MannDude said:

    @jar said:

    @emgh said:

    @jar said: It’s better for hosts than it is for customers. The ability to burst high resource usage is important, but preventing it is important to massive overselling. I usually assume if someone is advertising it, they’re telling me they pack boxes as hard as they can.

    Well, couldn't a client with "a bad configuration file" make a whole server fumble without it?

    Yeah, but the ability to burst is important enough that it justifies taking that risk. Maybe if you only applied limits to accounts that were abusive that would be okay, but most providers just use it to set low ceilings for everyone instead.

    I'd say most providers list the limits somewhere, at least the reputable ones.

    We list our CloudLinux limits publicly. I don't see it any different than VPS hosting in that regard. You get the resources that you pay for and if you need more to burst from time to time, you purchase the plan that can accommodate it. (Just as you would with a VPS or similar)

    With a VPS you've got SWAP though.

    And processes etc aren't limited in the same way.

    I understand what you're saying and I agree but there's differences making it somewhat different.

    There's an option in cln to set mem and vmem(swap)

    Thanked by 2emgh thecreator_
  • ShazanShazan Member, Host Rep

    @Hxxx said:
    Yes, don't use shared hosting that does not use cloudlinux + cagefs. Period.

    This is a bit of extreme.
    As @MannDude has pointed out already, there are other similar solutions nowadays, like DA ProPack + BubbleWrap. Cgroups is in the standard kernel, you don't need CloudLinux to limit resources anymore.
    Even CWP (let's keep aside its security issues that are OT in this context) can limit resources per user without CloudLinux.

    In any case it must be used properly, otherwise it can just be a way for the provider to host more accounts with poor performance in the end.

    So I would not say that CloudLinux + CageFS are a must nowadays.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • vbavba Member

    I tried propack directadmin which has feature to limit resources but when I compare with cloudlinux lve , I have better experience with cloudlinux LVE to limit resources

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • JamesFJamesF Member, Host Rep

    I am on the fence with cloudlinux with DA.

    The only reason I use it is to have the PHP options somewhere obvious where people look for it.

  • HxxxHxxx Member

    @Shazan said:

    @Hxxx said:
    Yes, don't use shared hosting that does not use cloudlinux + cagefs. Period.

    This is a bit of extreme.
    As @MannDude has pointed out already, there are other similar solutions nowadays, like DA ProPack + BubbleWrap. Cgroups is in the standard kernel, you don't need CloudLinux to limit resources anymore.
    Even CWP (let's keep aside its security issues that are OT in this context) can limit resources per user without CloudLinux.

    In any case it must be used properly, otherwise it can just be a way for the provider to host more accounts with poor performance in the end.

    So I would not say that CloudLinux + CageFS are a must nowadays.

    Is not about limiting resources.... is all about cagefs effectiveness.............

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • If you're running a shared hosting business, CloudLinux is an essential piece of equipment. I Don't prefer hosting companies to use it as an excuse to use their resources more than 50%. Websites can cause random spikes of resources due to plugins, Cron Resource use, and other random stuff that can cause a server to break down. CloudLinux prevents that from happening with cagefs isolation.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • ShazanShazan Member, Host Rep

    @Hxxx said:

    @Shazan said:

    @Hxxx said:
    Yes, don't use shared hosting that does not use cloudlinux + cagefs. Period.

    This is a bit of extreme.
    As @MannDude has pointed out already, there are other similar solutions nowadays, like DA ProPack + BubbleWrap. Cgroups is in the standard kernel, you don't need CloudLinux to limit resources anymore.
    Even CWP (let's keep aside its security issues that are OT in this context) can limit resources per user without CloudLinux.

    In any case it must be used properly, otherwise it can just be a way for the provider to host more accounts with poor performance in the end.

    So I would not say that CloudLinux + CageFS are a must nowadays.

    Is not about limiting resources.... is all about cagefs effectiveness.............

    BubbleWrap works well also.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • LeviLevi Member

    Boys, remember this: cloudlinux and litespeed designed to squeeze every last drop from your hardware and cram as much tenants as possible. Those software peaces are not designed to improve tenants well being in shared hosting environment.

    Usage of mentioned software depends on business volume. If you just starting - there is no need for anything fancy. KISS.

    Thanked by 2Shazan thecreator_
  • HxxxHxxx Member

    @LTniger said:
    Boys, remember this: cloudlinux and litespeed designed to squeeze every last drop from your hardware and cram as much tenants as possible. Those software peaces are not designed to improve tenants well being in shared hosting environment.

    Usage of mentioned software depends on business volume. If you just starting - there is no need for anything fancy. KISS.

    Disagree. You need a proper isolation solution to prevent one account from affecting the others, security wise, as a responsible hosting provider.

    Thanked by 1rcy026
  • EthernetServersEthernetServers Member, Patron Provider

    CloudLinux provides a lot more than just isolation and resource throttling, for example: support for NodeJS, Ruby, Python, etc... not forgetting the PHP selector (which is excellent and provides a great deal of flexibility you don't get with cPanel or DirectAdmin's own version).

    There's also mod_lsapi: https://www.cloudlinux.com/getting-started-with-cloudlinux-os/40-stability-features/932-mod-lsapi-installation-configuration/

    And a bunch more cool stuff.

    It's definitely a valuable asset to any shared hosting server.

    Sure, you can achieve some, maybe all, of its functionality without it - but personally, I'd rather have have it all in one neat package.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • @Hxxx said:

    @LTniger said:
    Boys, remember this: cloudlinux and litespeed designed to squeeze every last drop from your hardware and cram as much tenants as possible. Those software peaces are not designed to improve tenants well being in shared hosting environment.

    Usage of mentioned software depends on business volume. If you just starting - there is no need for anything fancy. KISS.

    Disagree. You need a proper isolation solution to prevent one account from affecting the others, security wise, as a responsible hosting provider.

    I second that, not being completely shutdown because a neighbor is an asshole is one of the things I as a tenant would consider part of my well being.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • LeviLevi Member

    @Hxxx said:

    @LTniger said:
    Boys, remember this: cloudlinux and litespeed designed to squeeze every last drop from your hardware and cram as much tenants as possible. Those software peaces are not designed to improve tenants well being in shared hosting environment.

    Usage of mentioned software depends on business volume. If you just starting - there is no need for anything fancy. KISS.

    Disagree. You need a proper isolation solution to prevent one account from affecting the others, security wise, as a responsible hosting provider.

    So, without cloudlinux nowadays is impossible to achieve proper isolation? Myth and incompetence. Cloudlinux designed for providers to control more aspects of served resources to end user. This allows to stuff way more accounts per server.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • HxxxHxxx Member

    @LTniger That's your opinion.
    Anyway, trusted solution, yes cloudlinux.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • bastabbastab Member, Host Rep

    @thecreator_ if you are running a Hosting Company then yes. Otherwise no.

    Bastab ; )

  • BasToTheMaxBasToTheMax Member, Host Rep

    What about docker?

  • NetDynamics24NetDynamics24 Member, Host Rep

    @thecreator_ said:
    I am considering providing shared web hosting. Is cloudlinux really necessary for this? What are the drawbacks of providing shared web hosting without Cloudlinux?

    You want to become a Hosting provider and cannot afford a CL license cost?

    Thanked by 1bruh21
  • quagsquags Member

    @emgh said:
    As I've said a hundred times though and still strongly believe:

    The implementation of addon domains across panels is terrible.

    cPanel should never have set that trend and other panels should never have followed.

    Ensim had this but never had huge traction and was bought out and eventually killed.

    I see propack mentioned in directadmin with bubble wrap. Its goal is the same thing as cagefs but doesn't work with php-fpm right now. If you use apache, you need fastcgi otherwise you are back to litespeed or openlitespeed. You'll find things don't work as well, like screen or tmux and are left using dtach. Cloudlinux overall is very ahead of where propack is.

    Thanked by 2emgh thecreator_
  • bruh21bruh21 Member, Host Rep

    If you are cannot invest in cloudlinux, consider just getting a reseller plan from a shared provider. It’ll save you some money, at least until you make enough to invest in your own server setup.

  • emghemgh Member

    @bruh21 said:
    If you are cannot invest in cloudlinux, consider just getting a reseller plan from a shared provider. It’ll save you some money, at least until you make enough to invest in your own server setup.

    CloudLinux isn't AS needed if you're not on shared though.

    Thanked by 1thecreator_
  • bruh21bruh21 Member, Host Rep
    edited April 2023

    @emgh said:

    @bruh21 said:
    If you are cannot invest in cloudlinux, consider just getting a reseller plan from a shared provider. It’ll save you some money, at least until you make enough to invest in your own server setup.

    CloudLinux isn't AS needed if you're not on shared though.

    Well yes, but OP is saying he wants to provide shared hosting services. For single account sites, you don’t really need cloudlinux as much.

    Thanked by 2emgh thecreator_
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