Stripe Price Increase in Europe: +46% for foreign cards

m4nu

Not unexpected after I was part of a focus group on this last year. You now pay for foreign currency payouts and they won't refund the dispute fee any more, even if you win the dispute.

The forex payout fee is 1%, so processing non-EU cards now costs 4.25% + 0.25eur (2.9% before)

How do you feel about this change? Any alternative providers that offer lower prices?

VirtFusion

Yep, that's going to sting.

https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-updates-for-businesses-in-the-united-kingdom

Alternatives with Stripe's flexibility are few and far between.

It's come to the point where you can't really blame companies for only offering products in their native currency and offloading the exchange on the customer.

LTniger

@m4nu said: they won't refund the dispute fee any more

Essentially they made PayPal move. Soon others will follow. Stripe quality gateways (with OK API's) in Europe with tolerable rates:

mollie (Netherlands)
adyen (Netherlands)
Klarna (Sweden)
Paylike (Denmark)
Mangopay (Luxembourg)
Quickpay (Denmark)

Thought, some of these gateways will boot out hosting business or put it under "High risk" flag and substantially higher fees.

Dump Stripe before they dump you.

m4nu

Nice list. Will have a look around after April.

MikeA

Pretty insane. I didn't realize how high payment fees were in general now, Stripe, PayPal. Makes me enjoy accepting crypto even more. When I filed my taxes last week I laughed at how my Coinbase fees were like a few dozen buckaroos and Stripe/PayPal were many many thousands. Could mortgage a cheap house just with transaction fees.

Arkas

I guess they figured out they are a very good alternative to paypal and took this measure. Next please.

msallak1

Check Payoneer checkout, looks like a new service but it says it is currently for merchants with Hong Kong entity.

I have no experience with them but you can check it

https://www.payoneer.com/solutions/checkout/

yoursunny

Register different companies to accept customers in different regions:

• USD payment to * LLC via ACH
• EUR payment to * GmbH via bank transfer
• GBP payment to * LTD via bank transfer
• CNY payment to * 有限公司 via Alipay

Abd

@LTniger said:

@m4nu said: they won't refund the dispute fee any more

Essentially they made PayPal move. Soon others will follow. Stripe quality gateways (with OK API's) in Europe with tolerable rates:

mollie (Netherlands)
adyen (Netherlands)
Klarna (Sweden)
Paylike (Denmark)
Mangopay (Luxembourg)
Quickpay (Denmark)

Thought, some of these gateways will boot out hosting business or put it under "High risk" flag and substantially higher fees.

Dump Stripe before they dump you.

But most of them don't support USD

mustafamw3

@msallak1 said:
Check Payoneer checkout, looks like a new service but it says it is currently for merchants with Hong Kong entity.

I have no experience with them but you can check it

https://www.payoneer.com/solutions/checkout/

Currently, Payoneer Checkout is only available to merchants who:

-Have or intend to set up a business entity in Hong Kong
-Exceed $20,000 in monthly webstore - volumes
-Have an independent online store that is either self-built or built with – Shopify, WooCommerce, Magento, Shoplazza, Shopline, or Ueeshop

LTniger

@Abd said:

@LTniger said:

@m4nu said: they won't refund the dispute fee any more

Essentially they made PayPal move. Soon others will follow. Stripe quality gateways (with OK API's) in Europe with tolerable rates:

mollie (Netherlands)
adyen (Netherlands)
Klarna (Sweden)
Paylike (Denmark)
Mangopay (Luxembourg)
Quickpay (Denmark)

Thought, some of these gateways will boot out hosting business or put it under "High risk" flag and substantially higher fees.

Dump Stripe before they dump you.

But most of them don't support USD

What? They support everything that Europe business needs.

tomle

Can't find any information on the Swedish site. Is this only for UK?

tjn

Wise announced today that they'll also start taking cards in the near feature:

Pay just 1% when you're paid with a personal card that's issued in the United Kingdom (UK).

Pay 2.9% when you're paid with a business card, or any personal card that's issued outside the UK.

m4nu

Excellent. Always good to have more competition.

MrRadic

Does no one do this the classic way, directly with a bank? Fees are much lower with no middle man.

PureVoltage

@MrRadic said:
Does no one do this the classic way, directly with a bank? Fees are much lower with no middle man.

ACH is quite nice that's for sure.

aj_potc

@PureVoltage said:

@MrRadic said:
Does no one do this the classic way, directly with a bank? Fees are much lower with no middle man.

ACH is quite nice that's for sure.

It's easy to get European clients to pay by wire transfer, as this has long been the standard there. It's also free (or nearly so) for both the sender and receiver when done within the SEPA zone.

But how to get US-based clients to use ACH, this is the question...

MrRadic

@aj_potc said:
It's easy to get European clients to pay by wire transfer, as this has long been the standard there. It's also free (or nearly so) for both the sender and receiver when done within the SEPA zone.

But how to get US-based clients to use ACH, this is the question...

I think he was referring to how CC payments are deposited into the bank account when working direct instead of a middle man.

tomle

@MrRadic said:
Does no one do this the classic way, directly with a bank? Fees are much lower with no middle man.

I think you have to work up some volume to get a merchant account directly with a bank. Cumbersome and lots of work for checkout integrations, might not be worth it if volumes are low and there are ready-made plugins for Stripe, Paypal etc.

MrRadic

@tomle said:

@MrRadic said:
Does no one do this the classic way, directly with a bank? Fees are much lower with no middle man.

I think you have to work up some volume to get a merchant account directly with a bank. Cumbersome and lots of work for checkout integrations, might not be worth it if volumes are low and there are ready-made plugins for Stripe, Paypal etc.

This is really not cumbersome, most banks utilize authorize.net, which is the most standardized setup, integrated everywhere. I would argue that the other options have poorer integration.

speedypage

@tjn said:
Wise announced today that they'll also start taking cards in the near feature:

Pay just 1% when you're paid with a personal card that's issued in the United Kingdom (UK).

Pay 2.9% when you're paid with a business card, or any personal card that's issued outside the UK.

Where do you see this? Struggling to find it on their site.

aj_potc

@MrRadic said:

@aj_potc said:
It's easy to get European clients to pay by wire transfer, as this has long been the standard there. It's also free (or nearly so) for both the sender and receiver when done within the SEPA zone.

But how to get US-based clients to use ACH, this is the question...

I think he was referring to how CC payments are deposited into the bank account when working direct instead of a middle man.

I wasn't aware there was much difference here. In your experience, how much do you estimate can be saved in fees by going with a bank for a merchant account rather than with a provider like Stripe?

RickBakkr

@LTniger said: mollie (Netherlands)

We have great experiences with Mollie! (looks for ref link ...) :-)

They really have mixed feelings when it comes to hosting industry. But as long as you can show them you are mature and won't cause many chargebacks, you're probably fine.

tomle

@MrRadic said:

@tomle said:

@MrRadic said:
Does no one do this the classic way, directly with a bank? Fees are much lower with no middle man.

I think you have to work up some volume to get a merchant account directly with a bank. Cumbersome and lots of work for checkout integrations, might not be worth it if volumes are low and there are ready-made plugins for Stripe, Paypal etc.

This is really not cumbersome, most banks utilize authorize.net, which is the most standardized setup, integrated everywhere. I would argue that the other options have poorer integration.

Ok, when you wrote directly with a bank, I thought you go to a bank and open up a merchant account with them. To me authorize.net is just another middle man.
For example in Sweden, I can get a merchant account for example with Swedbank which is one of the main banks here, but it's going to require high volume.

MrRadic

@tomle said:

@MrRadic said:

@tomle said:

@MrRadic said:
Does no one do this the classic way, directly with a bank? Fees are much lower with no middle man.

I think you have to work up some volume to get a merchant account directly with a bank. Cumbersome and lots of work for checkout integrations, might not be worth it if volumes are low and there are ready-made plugins for Stripe, Paypal etc.

This is really not cumbersome, most banks utilize authorize.net, which is the most standardized setup, integrated everywhere. I would argue that the other options have poorer integration.

Ok, when you wrote directly with a bank, I thought you go to a bank and open up a merchant account with them. To me authorize.net is just another middle man.
For example in Sweden, I can get a merchant account for example with Swedbank which is one of the main banks here, but it's going to require high volume.

Authorize.net is a payment gateway, it's just the technology that processes online payments, nothing more.

MrRadic

@aj_potc said:

@MrRadic said:

@aj_potc said:
It's easy to get European clients to pay by wire transfer, as this has long been the standard there. It's also free (or nearly so) for both the sender and receiver when done within the SEPA zone.

But how to get US-based clients to use ACH, this is the question...

I think he was referring to how CC payments are deposited into the bank account when working direct instead of a middle man.

I wasn't aware there was much difference here. In your experience, how much do you estimate can be saved in fees by going with a bank for a merchant account rather than with a provider like Stripe?

On our end, we pay the direct % charged by the credit card along with a flat per-transaction fee (which is where the profit margin is for the bank in our case). Companies like PayPal and Stripe make money on both the % and the per-transaction fees.

MrRadic

I think this is what we used, they'll connect you to a bank - https://paymentdepot.com/pricing/

rick2610

Mail from Stripe today, for EU users:

As of 10 April 2023, fees for card processing and disputes will be higher due to increases in network costs (in recent years, major card networks have introduced several new fees and have increased existing fees), as well as increases in underlying service costs. Transaction fees for cards will be categorised into multiple regional prices: Standard European cards (most cards including American Express) will change from 1.4% + €0.25 to 1.5% + €0.25. Premium European cards (commercial Visa/Mastercard) will change from 1.4% + €0.25 to 1.9% + €0.25. International cards issued outside of Europe and the UK will change from 2.9% + €0.25 to 3.25% + €0.25. UK cards will remain the same at 2.5% + €0.25. Dispute fees will change from €15 to €20. Due to the costs associated with managing dispute evidence submissions, we’ll no longer refund this fee if the customer’s bank resolves the dispute in your favour.

ralf

I'm not sure I see the justification for this:

Changes for USD alternative currency payouts
Businesses in the UK paying out to a bank account that accepts USD without requiring a business to be in the US (US-domiciled accounts) will now incur a 1% fee, with a minimum fee of US$2.50 per payout. This is in line with alternative currency payout fees from common providers.

I can't see any reason why a UK business wouldn't want to charge in USD, and have a payout in USD (e.g. my company has a US bank account because that's the easiest way for me to bill my largest client), so I guess this is just because they want to force people through their own forex pipeline.

Also the dispute fees seem crazy - if any customer can cost you £15 on any transaction, surely that make Stripe completely unsuitable for any transaction less than £15? Or is there a way to just automatically refund every dispute to avoid the fee?

jackb

@ralf said:
Or is there a way to just automatically refund every dispute to avoid the fee?

There are some early warning events that sometimes come ahead of disputes. This isn't exactly reliable but perhaps something that might need more attention now.

S4_John

Also got the email today from Stripe.

Dispute fees will change from €15 to €20. Due to the costs associated with managing dispute evidence submissions, we’ll no longer refund this fee if the customer’s bank resolves the dispute in your favour.

The little percentage fees aren't a huge issue, they are still competitive compared to most other options, but this dispute fee change feels very wrong.

If you win the dispute, Stripe still charge you €20, which might well be more than your product cost in the first place.