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Buying Homeserver - Page 2
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Buying Homeserver

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Comments

  • AXYZEAXYZE Member
    edited January 2023

    @Maounique said:

    @AXYZE said: How long do you use one 24/7?

    Only one I use 24/7, the "home guardian" one I use only when I am out, but my problem is not the box itself, but the flash card. I use samsung ones and optimizing writing a lot after I had 3 failed already. Fortunately, the last ones are holding for almost a year, I think.

    24/7 is ok, I have stabilized power from USB specialized power supply.
    That being said, I have no idea why you think a phone would do better running hot a job it was not designed for.

    As I see it, phone and set-top box pros and cons vs x86 platforms:
    1. Phone/box use way less power than any x86 equivalent box;
    2. No noise at all;
    3. Learning new things for many people as ARM platforms have their quirks;
    4. Ideal for a set and forget kind of scenario, albeit that is more like for a set-top box because the phone would likely not last long (I had a broken display one used nonstop and it failed within months);
    5. Very cheap, mostly free as opportunities to get them from friends and family are not rare.

    Cons:
    1. Phone would run hot and doesnt have much in terms of connectivity;
    2. No disk, albeit USB 2.5" ones could easily be added to the set top box as I did;
    3. CPU comparatively low power compared to most x86 alternatives;
    4. Phone is full of proprietary peripherals (set top box in a much lesser degree) and running linux on those might not be so straight forward, albeit specially tailored distros exist for some phones and definitely for some set-top boxes, like the x96 mini, albeit there are hundreds of versions out there so it might be harder for newbies.

    Have you tried F2FS onstead of ext4? Its Samsung filesystem made for eMMC storage targeted at smartphones and IoT. Maybe that will improve reliability?

    More: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F2FS

    Also you could put system on external ssd / thumbdrive and put only GRUB on microsd/emmc :)

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited January 2023

    @AXYZE said: Also you could put system on external ssd / thumbdrive and put only GRUB on microsd/emmc

    I put the OS on flash and the disk I shared (2 tb 2.5" one).
    The power drain for the disk is quite a lot given the meager power resources it has and I was worried for a while, this is why I didn't put the OS on the HDD as I had 1 TB one prepared in case 2 TB is too heavy, however it worked in full load (hdmi, disk 100%, wireless, ethernet) and most of the time is idle.

    @AXYZE said: Maybe that will improve reliability?

    Perhaps, but I got some 10 pieces at a sale for a couple of bucks each 16 GB and are just sitting around, once i optimized writing and mounted the logs and tmp in ram, it barely wrote anything.

  • vsys_hostvsys_host Member, Patron Provider

    Good afternoon!
    1) It will pull light programs. Something that requires more or fewer resources is better not to run. If you don't need software from haymaking, it's better to buy another iron.
    2) If you do not need to connect more than 1 SSD or PCI device, then NUCs are quite a good option
    3) For such money, he can assemble a server from a desktop iron, and it will work well 24/7
    If you want a ready-made product, you can consider the Dell PowerEdge Tower Server with the characteristics that suit you from new or used iron.

  • @AXYZE said:

    @Maounique said:

    @AXYZE said: you can install Debian on old Android phone, but you would need to connect power to battery pins to bypass battery as it will fail very fast on 24/7 charge. You can connect external SSD via usb otg.
    Galaxy S8 costs like $30 with broken screen and it scores 1487 multicore Geekbench 5 snd you get 4GB ram. Pretty nice. Power consumption is like 2-4W.

    in that case, this:

    offers regular USB, HDMI, ETH port, AV, IR and you can run straight from the card, dont even need to remove the Android it comes with. Same power usage (more or less) and similar price new. 2 GB ram, albeit versions with 4 exist at a bit higher price.
    I use a couple, one for a ftp/smb/nfs share and one as entry point to route everything over IPv4 in house (port forwarding, ACL, VPN). Got them for free, second had, one 1 GB, the other 2.

    TV set-boxes are indeed nice choice, but I'm not sure about their reliability 24/7 as I already had similiar box (TX3 mini) waaay back and saw that they cut corners on everything (including power supply). Could you comment on this? How long do you use one 24/7?

    The power supplies are dog shit but the rest is capable of 24/7. Nothing a USB to barrel jack cable can't solve

  • @Maounique said:

    @AXYZE said: you can install Debian on old Android phone, but you would need to connect power to battery pins to bypass battery as it will fail very fast on 24/7 charge. You can connect external SSD via usb otg.
    Galaxy S8 costs like $30 with broken screen and it scores 1487 multicore Geekbench 5 snd you get 4GB ram. Pretty nice. Power consumption is like 2-4W.

    in that case, this:

    offers regular USB, HDMI, ETH port, AV, IR and you can run straight from the card, dont even need to remove the Android it comes with. Same power usage (more or less) and similar price new. 2 GB ram, albeit versions with 4 exist at a bit higher price.
    I use a couple, one for a ftp/smb/nfs share and one as entry point to route everything over IPv4 in house (port forwarding, ACL, VPN). Got them for free, second had, one 1 GB, the other 2.

    They fail. Ain't worth the tears and hassle.

  • darkimmortaldarkimmortal Member
    edited January 2023

    @TimboJones said:

    @Maounique said:

    @AXYZE said: you can install Debian on old Android phone, but you would need to connect power to battery pins to bypass battery as it will fail very fast on 24/7 charge. You can connect external SSD via usb otg.
    Galaxy S8 costs like $30 with broken screen and it scores 1487 multicore Geekbench 5 snd you get 4GB ram. Pretty nice. Power consumption is like 2-4W.

    in that case, this:

    offers regular USB, HDMI, ETH port, AV, IR and you can run straight from the card, dont even need to remove the Android it comes with. Same power usage (more or less) and similar price new. 2 GB ram, albeit versions with 4 exist at a bit higher price.
    I use a couple, one for a ftp/smb/nfs share and one as entry point to route everything over IPv4 in house (port forwarding, ACL, VPN). Got them for free, second had, one 1 GB, the other 2.

    They fail. Ain't worth the tears and hassle.

    Fine here for 2 years and counting of proper (not idle) 24/7 operation. Power supply gave out after a year but was expected with how light and cheap it felt

    Don’t really see how these can fail with such low temperature and current, and almost everything in a SoC. Weak point is probably the eMMC, but nothing external storage can’t fix if you suspect a cheap eMMC has been chosen

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @darkimmortal said: Power supply gave out after a year but was expected with how light and cheap it felt

    I have power stabilizer and UPSes, it is very rare that I have any kind of power adapter fail. In addition, I have special adapted for all kinds of 5V connectors and I use that instead of the original ones when I suspect they might not be up to the task.

  • @darkimmortal said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Maounique said:

    @AXYZE said: you can install Debian on old Android phone, but you would need to connect power to battery pins to bypass battery as it will fail very fast on 24/7 charge. You can connect external SSD via usb otg.
    Galaxy S8 costs like $30 with broken screen and it scores 1487 multicore Geekbench 5 snd you get 4GB ram. Pretty nice. Power consumption is like 2-4W.

    in that case, this:

    offers regular USB, HDMI, ETH port, AV, IR and you can run straight from the card, dont even need to remove the Android it comes with. Same power usage (more or less) and similar price new. 2 GB ram, albeit versions with 4 exist at a bit higher price.
    I use a couple, one for a ftp/smb/nfs share and one as entry point to route everything over IPv4 in house (port forwarding, ACL, VPN). Got them for free, second had, one 1 GB, the other 2.

    They fail. Ain't worth the tears and hassle.

    Fine here for 2 years and counting of proper (not idle) 24/7 operation. Power supply gave out after a year but was expected with how light and cheap it felt

    These are contradictory statements. It literally wasn't fine for two years if the power supply died after a year.

    Don’t really see how these can fail with such low temperature and current, and almost everything in a SoC. Weak point is probably the eMMC, but nothing external storage can’t fix if you suspect a cheap eMMC has been chosen

    They are cost reduced reference designs with little to no cooling or heat dissipation designed. There's little to no support, both hardware and software wise. Corners are cut with thermal paste/pads and adequate heatsinks.

  • aquaaqua Member, Patron Provider

    Get a E3 server. I have one for my home setup and to be honest, I haven't noticed anything much on my power bill running it 24/7.

    You can come across some R210(ii) for dirt cheap.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited January 2023

    @TimboJones said: They are cost reduced reference designs with little to no cooling or heat dissipation designed.

    Absolutely, when heat is like 2-4 watt, then literally almost anything would do. I remember in the nineties buying a SH 486 DX66 PS/2 desktop which had as a heatsink a coin (very large at that time, true, covering almost all of the pretty large CPU).
    Corner cutting? Absolutely! Living dangerously? Not really.
    My x96s are barely warm to the touch, including the one feeding power to a 2 TB spinning disk, but it is true it is pretty cold in house, 16-17 degrees, in the summer I put them standing on a lateral for better air circulation.

    You must keep in mind these boxes are made to decode 4K videos for hours on end, they are not heating up like a phone used at 100% CPU, the case is much more spacious, has tiny but many holes, agreed, the adapter is way too light to inspire confidence, but as I have said, my power is filtered through a stabilizer AND UPSes, 90% of adapter failures are caused by power issues.

  • ArkasArkas Moderator

    I have an old Dell i5/4th gen (I think its a PowerEdge model If my memory servers me right) that I use as well. I got it second hand from ebay and it has been running strong for over 2 years. I've added a 250GB SSD to it and it's running great. External 2TB HDD drive attached to it.

  • I've had many kind of home servers before but ultimately, the best solution has been using a laptop, this is for practical reasons:

    • takes less space and makes less noise than desktop/rack
    • excellent performance vs power consumption ratio
    • any high end, 3 or 4 generations old laptop CPU/RAM combo is more than enough for most things, it's usually more important to have at least SSD preferably NvME drive to get good overall performance for multiple containers/virtual machines (depends on what's been driven on those instances)

    But most importantly: native UPS as you usually have 2+ hours of battery life when you have a power outage. I have separate UPS device for my router and switches so my home server (and network) stays online even if there's a longer outage. This setup allows me to have a small, reasonably sized UPS as it only needs to supply power for networking. If I had a desktop PC/rack, which didn't have an integrated battery, I would need a much bigger UPS system

  • Run 4 x Intel NUC with vSphere and vSAN for distributed storage. It works well with flash disk.

  • JabJabJabJab Member
    edited January 2023

    @AXYZE said: TV set-boxes are indeed nice choice, but I'm not sure about their reliability 24/7 as I already had similiar box (TX3 mini) waaay back and saw that they cut corners on everything (including power supply). Could you comment on this? How long do you use one 24/7?

    Running those x96 mini for few years (2019-), 24/7, high load, Android, like 15 of those.
    Nothing died, not even flash. No idea about PSU as I run those via AmazonBasics USB HUB and USB<->barrel cable. Oh, also no case and cheap Aliexpress heatsink on top.

  • darkimmortaldarkimmortal Member
    edited January 2023

    @TimboJones said:

    @darkimmortal said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Maounique said:

    @AXYZE said: you can install Debian on old Android phone, but you would need to connect power to battery pins to bypass battery as it will fail very fast on 24/7 charge. You can connect external SSD via usb otg.
    Galaxy S8 costs like $30 with broken screen and it scores 1487 multicore Geekbench 5 snd you get 4GB ram. Pretty nice. Power consumption is like 2-4W.

    in that case, this:

    offers regular USB, HDMI, ETH port, AV, IR and you can run straight from the card, dont even need to remove the Android it comes with. Same power usage (more or less) and similar price new. 2 GB ram, albeit versions with 4 exist at a bit higher price.
    I use a couple, one for a ftp/smb/nfs share and one as entry point to route everything over IPv4 in house (port forwarding, ACL, VPN). Got them for free, second had, one 1 GB, the other 2.

    They fail. Ain't worth the tears and hassle.

    Fine here for 2 years and counting of proper (not idle) 24/7 operation. Power supply gave out after a year but was expected with how light and cheap it felt

    These are contradictory statements. It literally wasn't fine for two years if the power supply died after a year.

    Don’t really see how these can fail with such low temperature and current, and almost everything in a SoC. Weak point is probably the eMMC, but nothing external storage can’t fix if you suspect a cheap eMMC has been chosen

    They are cost reduced reference designs with little to no cooling or heat dissipation designed. There's little to no support, both hardware and software wise. Corners are cut with thermal paste/pads and adequate heatsinks.

    Power supply is just a bonus, typical SBC does not include one. Considering the android TV box costs less overall than a SBC, power supply failure does not count as overall failure in my opinion

    Cooling is fine, a chunk of metal thermal padded to the SoC and holes for convection. No problem sustaining 24/7 100% all core load without throttling. Better than the average SBC that comes with no heatsink or case, and a higher price.

  • @Maounique said:
    You must keep in mind these boxes are made to decode 4K videos for hours on end, they are not heating up like a phone used at 100% CPU,

    By throttling themselves. As a long time satellite with DVR user, the delays and slower GUI is very noticeable.

    Going from the Nexbox a95x to older 2019 nvidia Shield was much more responsive with better decoding and support for Netflix and the HDCP content. Much better supported, but 2-3x the cost.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @JabJab said: Running those x96 mini for few years (2019-), 24/7, high load, Android, like 15 of those.

    what are you running on them? :o

  • @Maounique said: what are you running on them?

    Pokémon GO MITM client for a real time map around my (part) of city. :D

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @JabJab said: Pokémon GO MITM client for a real time map around my (part) of city.

    Okay, that is a comfort. There are people crazier than me.

  • @Maounique said: Okay, that is a comfort. There are people crazier than me.

    No idea if I should feel offended now :rage:

    Thanked by 1Maounique
  • CabbageCabbage Member
    edited January 2023

    Bumping this because I need some additional guides. I looked up a lot of devices, including domestic and global stores, etc. I came across mini PCs, especially the ones made by Minisforum and Beelink. All of their devices seem like a really good deal. Too good, to be honest.

    Here's what I am aiming for: https://a.co/d/eFzRcQv (HM80 with 32GB RAM)

    Most reviews says they're legitimate, and have been used for various purposes. The hardware specs alone are definitely enough for my use, so I am not too concerned about expanding it in the future.

    However, my number 1 use case is virtual machines, and I am not sure about how compatible this would be. I'm worried about this one in particular because there have been issues running virtualisation related software like Proxmox, usually regarding said software not being able to recognise ethernet controller used in these. (I225-V) While this issue seems to be fixed in the more recent versions (https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/mini-pc-for-proxmox.117531/post-515248), I can't help but feel like these may not be as compatible with my main use as I have previously assumed.

    I would love to know if anyone has done virtualisations with these devices or other devices made by Minisforum. Or anything I should watch out for when it comes to ESXi/Proxmox compatibility.

    Otherwise, I'll probably go for what most suggested (and what I think is a safer bet): https://a.co/d/468Dpmy (Lenovo ThinkCentre M910Q Refurbished)

  • TrKTrK Member

    Doesn't the Unraid and Truenas scale also have Vms available?

  • @TrK said:
    Doesn't the Unraid and Truenas scale also have Vms available?

    Yes

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