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CPU Engineering Samples
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CPU Engineering Samples

Looking for hardware at Ebay, I've come across E5 v3 CPU's that are "ES", engineering sample versions. A popular supermicro seller over there has some of them at sale for a nice price (whole refurbished server / excellent specs). There is a big difference between standard versions and ES in terms of price. This is not a CPU sale, is a server sale that for some reason has ES CPU version.

Anybody here has any experience with ES versions of CPU's ? Buggy? I would assume they are buggier? Has defects of some sort, possibly not as polished as the release versions.

Comments

  • Clock speed may be revised by release version. Other than that, they're the same chip I think.

    Underclocking = lower performance
    Overclocking = overheating

    Thanked by 1Hxxx
  • I've used in production without issues. ES v4s. Generally lower clock speeds though.

    Thanked by 1Hxxx
  • Not all ES are the same. Not sure about Xeons, but ES of some consumer Alder Lake CPUs iirc have all the PCI-E lanes from the CPU disabled.

    Thanked by 1Hxxx
  • I did not notice any missing lanes. All slots worked on e5 v4s

    Thanked by 1Hxxx
  • terrahostterrahost Member, Patron Provider

    We've tested some ES CPUs and found them to be buggy unfortunately. Also Supermicro seems to be the only vendor in newer BIOS that hasn't blocked the stepping of the CPUs.

    Actually built our own firmware for a Dell PowerEdge server to accept the CPUs a few years back, that was fun, and tiresome :P

    Thanked by 1Hxxx
  • There's plenty of Reddit feedback to say they are more trouble than worth. They're also legal property of Intel...

    Thanked by 1Hxxx
  • MrRadicMrRadic Patron Provider, Veteran

    It's honestly not worth it.

    Thanked by 1Hxxx
  • AXYZEAXYZE Member
    edited December 2022

    I have quite a lot of experience with them.

    Intel is making CPUs. Before releasing new series them they need to test them.
    They are making these samples, send it to OEMs, everybody tests them, they find bugs and they are fixing it.
    After that there is another wave of engineering samples with fixed bugs, once again they send them, fix... once again new wave...
    So overall there are 4-6 waves of ES cpus available for OEMs.
    OEMs make boards around these CPUs etc.
    After all of that you get final boards and final processors. These are final designes that were made to work perfectly.

    If you get ES processor then it isnt designed to work on final motherboard. Thats why people are reporting not working PCI-E lanes, not working DDR slots, bad stabilitity.

    For the most part ES you will find on Aliexpress/Ebay are early ES waves which have a lot of bugs, lower clock as they are designed to find bugs, not hit performance targets. Later ES are designed to be exactly like final CPU, they will have the same freqency etc. so OEMs can create cooling solutions etc.

    Later ESes are usually sold through friends, some on taobao, but very rarely they go to AliExpress/Ebay, demand is high enough for them on local market.

    Thats why you shouldnt get ES from ebay, unless you are sure its the past batch before release AND your motherboard have correct microcodes to decode that CPU correctly - otherwise you can have low performance if temperature sensor is not read correctly, not working sleep state, not working USB or in worst case it wont post at all.

    If you see server with ES CPU then it is likely ES board too, stolen from somewhere as its property of Intel and they should send it back. It should work fine tho if its not early samples plagued with bugs.

  • @MrRadic said:
    It's honestly not worth it.

    I tend to agree with this. If we're talking about E5 v3, the released ones are already priced at 10 bags of gourmet potato chips. just buy those.

    Thanked by 2yoursunny Hxxx
  • Good discussion team. I personally don't have experience with ES hardware. Nor I want to. Asked because it kept appearing on my refurbish server searches from diff vendors.

    How would a customer know if a leased server is using ES? Is it identified as Model 12345 ES at BIOS level? or it would be identified equally to the final version model at the BIOS level?

  • emgemg Veteran
    edited December 2022

    @AXYZE said: I have quite a lot of experience with them.

    Intel is making CPUs. Before releasing new series them they need to test them.
    They are making these samples, send it to OEMs, everybody tests them, they find bugs and they are fixing it.
    After that there is another wave of engineering samples with fixed bugs, once again they send them, fix... once again new wave...
    So overall there are 4-6 waves of ES cpus available for OEMs.
    OEMs make boards around these CPUs etc.
    After all of that you get final boards and final processors. These are final designes that were made to work perfectly.
    [...]

    I was reluctant to post in this thread because I think our experience was an outlier and happened too long ago to be relevant to this discussion. It should not be considered when thinking about this question today. So much has changed in terms of processor development and complexity. I am documenting it here to show that the same questions and issues have been going on for a long time.

    In the mid-1980s, we discovered a bug in a popular, mainstream Intel processor. Few would have encountered it in their normal use, but it was a "show stopper" for us.

    We reported the bug to Intel. They confirmed it quickly. About 3 or 4 weeks later, Intel sent us engineering samples of the next minor rev. level to confirm that the bug had been fixed. It was fixed. We would not ship the engineering samples in delivered products to the customer, so we installed them in our lab and other development systems.
    -> We used the engineering samples for several years without any problems or issues. They lasted until they were no longer needed.

    It was a straightforward bug to fix. I believe that no other changes or bug fixes were included in the updated revision of the processor.

    Today's processors are far more complex, and it did not surprise me to learn that engineering samples go through several edit/fix/testing cycles before reaching a "stable" point.

    I hope this is helpful to someone.

    Thanked by 2Hxxx maverick
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