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How Do You Run a Desktop Linux from a VPS Remotely? - Page 2
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How Do You Run a Desktop Linux from a VPS Remotely?

24

Comments

  • @emg said:

    I started on this well-written blog entry, but got stuck at the step with the command "apt-get install vnc4server". The error message in my Debian 11 installation reads, "Package vnc4server is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source".

    That blog post was based on Debian 10, which still had vnc4server as a so-called transitional package. Basically, vnc4server depended on tigervnc-standalone-server, which is the package that you should directly install on Debian 11

    Thanked by 2raindog308 emg
  • emgemg Veteran
    edited November 2022

    Thanks for the responses. I'll give TigerVNC a try and see how it goes.

    Sharing:
    I am also comparing desktop environments. I gave XFCE a try. I am looking at gnome next. Still working with the testbed virtual environment, not a VPS yet. The VPS will add latency.

  • @ElonBezos said:
    nomachine vs x2go, any experience which one better?
    xrdp was too slow for me

    nomachine for sure, lower bandwidth usage, you can watch youtube no stutter with sound support, pretty snappy for vps with 200ms ping

    Thanked by 1ElonBezos
  • ArkasArkas Moderator

    @labrax said: nomachine for sure, lower bandwidth usage, you can watch youtube no stutter with sound support, pretty snappy for vps with 200ms ping

    You did this with a ping of 200ms ?

  • NoMachine +1

  • defaultdefault Veteran
    edited November 2022

    I love the ideas of privacy, freedom, and transparency. I use X2Go because it is open-source. I don't enjoy the idea of closed-source software (like NoMachine) on my servers.

    The desktop I use is LXDE because it is the lightest, even though LXQT comes close to it and becomes more popular nowadays.

    Thanked by 1rm_
  • @emg said:
    Sharing:
    I am also comparing desktop environments. I gave XFCE a try. I am looking at gnome next. Still working with the testbed virtual environment, not a VPS yet. The VPS will add latency.

    For VNC, I personally prefer a lighter desktop setup, so I would find Gnome (much) too heavy for this purpose. In my view, Xfce would be a better choice for VNC

    (In fact, I generally simply use a window manager for VNC -- IceWM -- but for many people, this may be too lightweight)

  • I'm using an Oracle ARM64 VPS with 2 cores and 12GB of RAM as my remote desktop. I am running Oracle's version of Ubuntu 20.04 server that I added the Mate desktop and xRDP. I access it using a ssh tunnel. I tried the TigerVNC Server, but found on Windows and Android clients that xRDP was more responsive. I was able to get remote audio over RDP to work using the info from this link: https://c-nergy.be/blog/?p=17734

    I travel a lot and use this to have a desktop within the US to access stuff inside the US, so mostly running Firefox and Chrome browsers. I use it with a single unprivileged user.

    Thanked by 2ralf sebkehl
  • I have been using X2Go in a systemd nspawn container for over a year. I thought the general sluggishness was normal and maybe also caused by systemd (I'd read some comparisons of it and other types of containerization) but just put up with it.

    I'd also read on LET about KasmVNC (https://github.com/kasmtech/KasmVNC) and tried it out in the same container. It was much faster, almost like RDP or even Citrix, but it had no client, only works in a browser and the CPU load was a bit high. I also didn't continue with it because of the browser requirement and my habit of closing browser tabs with Ctrl-W, which obviously just closed the sesssion. I could have investigated keybindings and whatnot but just soldiered on with X2Go.

    After reading this thread I've now given ThinLinc a go and the difference to X2Go is like night and day. It is much, much zippier. Even connecting to an existing session is instantaneous whereas X2Go can take 10 seconds or more, but that's maybe not such a dealbreaker. Afaik the only closed-source parts of it are the management tools for enterprise customers.

    It did take me over an hour to get it working. systemd forwards a port on the public IP to SSH in the container. The ThinLinc client gets the internal IP from the session agent instead of the public IP and can't connect properly. I needed to add the public IP (or resolvable hostname) to agent_hostname= in /opt/thinlinc/etc/conf.d/vsmagent.hconf. The documentation covers this but it wasn't so obvious to me where these things are located.

    For me, ThinLinc is the holy grail of bringing Windows RDP/Citrix performance to Linux. It has all the audio/microphone/local resources-sharing bells and whistles and Youtube videos play perfectly.

    Thanked by 1cheapdave
  • alpine+xfce+xrdp

  • @Arkas said:

    @labrax said: nomachine for sure, lower bandwidth usage, you can watch youtube no stutter with sound support, pretty snappy for vps with 200ms ping

    You did this with a ping of 200ms ?

    yea, cant be helped since my storage vps located in eu

  • I see people on here posting about NoMachine and giving it solid reviews. I checked out their website and see that they mention being able to pass over sound and decent video quality with not too much lag.

    Out of curiosity, how does this fare compared with something like Teradici? I'm a bit curious about it given this is a free software, and a product like Teradici costs a pretty penny to license yearly. I don't expect the same level of performance, but I am curious if anyone has any experience and can mention it.

  • @Pwner said:
    I see people on here posting about NoMachine and giving it solid reviews. I checked out their website and see that they mention being able to pass over sound and decent video quality with not too much lag.

    Out of curiosity, how does this fare compared with something like Teradici? I'm a bit curious about it given this is a free software, and a product like Teradici costs a pretty penny to license yearly. I don't expect the same level of performance, but I am curious if anyone has any experience and can mention it.

    To be fair, NoMachine is only free for personal use and expensive AF for commercial/enterprise use.

  • @TimboJones said:

    @Pwner said:
    I see people on here posting about NoMachine and giving it solid reviews. I checked out their website and see that they mention being able to pass over sound and decent video quality with not too much lag.

    Out of curiosity, how does this fare compared with something like Teradici? I'm a bit curious about it given this is a free software, and a product like Teradici costs a pretty penny to license yearly. I don't expect the same level of performance, but I am curious if anyone has any experience and can mention it.

    To be fair, NoMachine is only free for personal use and expensive AF for commercial/enterprise use.

    Teradici itself isn't much cheaper for any licensing level from my experiences. Mostly just wanted to see if anyone else has any input they can share. Curious to see the applications for this, because software like Teradici is valuable in remote access within the media editing industry and NoMachine seems to offer a nice alternative to it. Guess the only way to find out is to just test it myself and see how it goes.

  • emgemg Veteran

    -> Does anyone have a solution to user-switching with a graphical desktop? My gut says no.

    I am still playing in my locally hosted testbed.

    I had originally intended to connect under a remote-access-only, unprivileged account, then switch users to a unprivileged working account or an admin account (for system configuration changes) as needed. That won't work, since VNC connections are coupled to pre-logged-in desktops.

    With Windows or Apple remote desktops, I like to create an unprivileged dummy account for remote access only. Once you connect, you can switch users to your working account or an admin account as needed.

    Linux VNC will not work that way. I have not tried xrdp yet.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran
    edited November 2022

    @emg said: I am still playing in my locally hosted testbed.

    Locally hosted is not indicative of the WAN performance. Do not put any hope on VNC over WAN. If you want anything resembling smooth page scrolling in browsers, for one. x2go seems like it could do better than VNC in all aspects with no downsides (still too lazy to set it up myself).

    Or if you mean a remote server within 10ms ping, then anything will work.

  • emgemg Veteran

    @emg said:
    I am still playing in my locally hosted testbed.

    @rm_ said:
    Locally hosted is not indicative of the WAN performance. Do not put any hope on VNC over WAN. If you want anything resembling smooth page scrolling in browsers, for one. x2go seems like it could do better than VNC in all aspects with no downsides (still too lazy to set it up myself).

    Or if you mean a remote server within 10ms ping, then anything will work.

    I understand that local performance is not indicative of performance over the internet. I got that from the start.

    The testbed is to learn out how to set up different configurations, try the resulting user interfaces, and see how they work.

    My lowest latency VPS from the home is 20 ms, but I can swap it or get one with under 15 ms latency if I want. Once I find a testbed configuration that I like, I'll try it on a VPS to see how much latency affects performance.

    I try to change one thing at a time.

  • farsighterfarsighter Member
    edited November 2022

    @emg said:
    -> Does anyone have a solution to user-switching with a graphical desktop? My gut says no.

    you can actually run gui programs as another user from a gui terminal but fully switching desktop is probably not possible directly.

  • jperkinsjperkins Member
    edited November 2022

    @rm_ said
    Locally hosted is not indicative of the WAN performance. Do not put any hope on VNC over WAN. If you want anything resembling smooth page scrolling in browsers,

    I run tightvnc on relatives windows laptops so I can provide remote tech support. It amazes me how well it works even when I am at work tethered to my cellphone.
    35ms ping from my home to theirs. Im sure the cellphone tether is higher but that isnt in front of me right now

    edit - expecting to be able to stream movies and keep the audio in sink is a big NO go.

    Have also run kvm hosts with vnc and accessed them remotely, although not nearly as much.

    But I would think the OP would want to run his desktop natively and create a tunnel of choice, openvpn or wg, but I didnt review this entire thread so his case may be different

  • @emg said:

    @emg said:
    I am still playing in my locally hosted testbed.

    @rm_ said:
    Locally hosted is not indicative of the WAN performance. Do not put any hope on VNC over WAN. If you want anything resembling smooth page scrolling in browsers, for one. x2go seems like it could do better than VNC in all aspects with no downsides (still too lazy to set it up myself).

    Or if you mean a remote server within 10ms ping, then anything will work.

    I understand that local performance is not indicative of performance over the internet. I got that from the start.

    The testbed is to learn out how to set up different configurations, try the resulting user interfaces, and see how they work.

    My lowest latency VPS from the home is 20 ms, but I can swap it or get one with under 15 ms latency if I want. Once I find a testbed configuration that I like, I'll try it on a VPS to see how much latency affects performance.

    I try to change one thing at a time.

    You won't notice any difference between 15 and 20ms. You would 20 vs 80ms (cross country).

    Have you tried x2go? You use ssh to connect to a login screen and then you can login as someone else, from the looks of it.

  • emgemg Veteran
    edited November 2022

    @TimboJones said:

    You won't notice any difference between 15 and 20ms. You would 20 vs 80ms (cross country).

    Have you tried x2go? You use ssh to connect to a login screen and then you can login as someone else, from the looks of it.

    I noticed x2go in some of the posts above. I have not tried it yet, but it is on the list. I started reading about it this morning. It looks promising.

    Thanks to Timbo and everyone above for their suggestions. Sorry my reports are slow to come, but I have been sneaking spare time from several active projects when I can.

  • emgemg Veteran
    edited November 2022

    Progress report:

    I tried xrdp with LightDM and a MATE desktop on Debian in the testbed yesterday afternoon. On my Mac, I used Microsoft Remote Desktop to connect through an SSH tunnel. Performance was excellent because it was a virtual machine running locally.

    I did not try to make sound work with xrdp. I had no need and little interest.

    I woke up way too early this morning, so I repeated the Debian installation on a VPS with a 20 ms ping time. When the "tasksel" prompt appeared during installation, I chose Debian desktop environment, MATE, SSH server and standard system utilities. (Normally I choose only the SSH server and standard system utilities.) I configured it with full disk encryption, aiming for a "worst case scenario" performance test.

    Performance from the VPS with xrdp is much better than I expected. My VPS (20 ms latency) is very useable as long as you are not working with video. Mouse and keyboard response are good. Office apps worked as expected. The web browser loaded quickly, even graphics. YouTube videos in a browser window were NOT acceptable. They were too jerky and NOT watchable for entertainment. (Under the provider's console VNC, YouTube videos seemed less jerky, but not any better.)

    I won't pretend that my xrdp VPS test feels as "zippy" as the desktop on my home computer, but it works well for non-video uses. I would be happy to use it for "document-oriented work." (I have had to work on systems with far worse performance.)

    I like the security and multi-user aspects of the xrdp solution better than VNC. With xrdp, you can use the same SSH tunnel for all of your remote desktop user accounts. When an xrdp remote desktop window is closed, the user account (and desktop) are logged out. You can also lock the screen to resume a session later. I like this approach because I can use an unprivileged, unused account for the remote access SSH tunnel.

    With VNC, the lock screen does not work and there is essentially no way to log out. The desktop is always active with VNC - there is no way to log out. In addition, with VNC you must create separate SSH tunnels to separate ports on the server for each user account, and each account must leave an active desktop to connect to. With VNC, there is no user switching, other than connecting on different ports. With xrdp, you open a separate Windows-style remote desktop connection for each user account.

    I did find an unusual corner case "bug" with user switching and xrdp. If you are connected with xrdp and try to login under the same account using the provider's console VNC, you will see the error, "Could not acquire name on session bus" because you can't be logged in from the same account twice. When you log out of the xrdp session, the console VNC login will complete and leave an active desktop for that account on the console. That's true, whether or not you are connected to the console. Ouch.

    Next up:
    Look at x2go.
    I also want to look at Xpra, which was recommended by one of my kids.

    Thanked by 2dev077 angstrom
  • Add fastX to your checklist.
    Its not free but you can have a 30 days trial without credit card
    https://www.starnet.com/fastx/

  • @emg said: YouTube videos in a browser window were NOT acceptable. They were too jerky and NOT watchable for entertainment.

    I use nekko firefox to watch youtube, on vps 50 ms latency. It's very smooth, you should try it. https://github.com/m1k1o/neko

  • emgemg Veteran

    @dev077 said:

    @emg said: YouTube videos in a browser window were NOT acceptable. They were too jerky and NOT watchable for entertainment.

    I use nekko firefox to watch youtube, on vps 50 ms latency. It's very smooth, you should try it. https://github.com/m1k1o/neko

    Sure, I'll try it out. To be honest, I have little reason to watch a video on a remote'd Linux desktop. I am better off watching it on the local computer I use to connect to it.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited November 2022

    @emg said:
    Performance from the VPS with xrdp is much better than I expected. My VPS (20 ms latency) is

    Reminder, ping times are round trip, so your one way latency is on average, half the ping number.

    Next up:
    Look at x2go.
    I also want to look at Xpra, which was recommended by one of my kids.

    A) make your kid do this testing and report back. I feel parents don't exploit family/child labour enough these days. Years ago, that was the whole point of having them.

    B ) don't tell the kid you tried other solutions before your kid's recommendation, haha.

    Thanked by 1emg
  • KasmVNC - Linux Web Remote Desktop

    https://github.com/kasmtech/KasmVNC

  • I use x2go, I much prefer it over the usual VNC stuff. Sadly there's no android/phone client. NoMachine has it on the other hand but I havent used it much to recommend it or not.

  • emgemg Veteran

    @TimboJones said:

    A) make your kid do this testing and report back. I feel parents don't exploit family/child labour enough these days. Years ago, that was the whole point of having them.

    B ) don't tell the kid you tried other solutions before your kid's recommendation, haha.

    Alas! If only we could have those days back when they lived at home and we could have shared more time together. That won't be happening. They live far away, have their own life, and are too busy for more than an occasional phone call or email. :-(

  • @caracal said:
    I run xrdp with guacamole

    Love having a full desktop on any web browser from work.

    I can't believe that it took this long into the thread for someone to recommend Guacamole. It's been great for my use.

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