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20+ days waiting for BGP session from clouvider.. is that normal?
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20+ days waiting for BGP session from clouvider.. is that normal?

hey everyone!

i really hate starting a thread like this.. but it's been too long so I might post one now..

so I've been waiting 20+ days from clouvider to provide me BGP peer details.. does it really take that long?

here's what happened:

  1. they have a otc for bgp, paid within the same day.

  2. they ask for personal kyc & LoA from the ASN owner (my billing account is under my personal name, while ASN is under an ltd co name). makes sense, so I provided all documents within the same day.

  3. they ask us to have their AS number on our AS-SET.. kinda weird, because from what I know, AS-SET should be done from the upstream side? anyways.. I set them up within the same day too.

and silence. well not literal silence, I keep bringing up for updates, they said that there are no SLA for BGP setup.. but.. waiting 20+ days for peer details..?

is that normal? need your opinions on this.. thanks!

«13

Comments

  • Let me tag dom for you @Clouvider :smile:

  • Did they set any expectations on the timeframe at all?

  • @dahartigan said: Did they set any expectations on the timeframe at all?

    not at all. but does it take that long?

  • HxxxHxxx Member

    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    How can you expect provider's respect / loyalty after doing that?

    I recommend you PM Clouvider here and or take the conversation into tickets again.

  • edited September 7

    @Hxxx said: I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    >

    so are you saying that customers should basically shut up while having service with a provider?

    and i don't think i said anything negative about them. just wondering why it it's taking this long, would be great to hear from fellow providers on their setup time or fellow friends on how long does it take.

    Thanked by 1darkimmortal
  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider

    @nanankcornering said:

    @Hxxx said: I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    >

    so are you saying that customers should basically shut up while having service with a provider?

    and i don't think i said anything negative about them. just wondering why it it's taking this long, would be great to hear from fellow providers on their setup time.

    I mean to a degree yeah. Depends on how important they are to you and how important you think you are to them. If you start enough trouble that they consider you to be negative value, don't trust that they'll let it go. It's a good lesson for anyone, don't shit where you eat.

    Thanked by 2Hxxx skorous
  • @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    How can you expect provider's respect / loyalty after doing that?

    I recommend you PM Clouvider here and or take the conversation into tickets again.

    For normal provider critique is a way for improvement of the processes. For the stupid one - personal insult/bash.

    Bad review is a feedback and almost always it is way way better than good review, it allows to evolve.

  • @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review

    This one isn’t a review… more like “I paid but where is my service… nobody answers tickets”

    Good response from @Clouvider will turn this thread into a positive!

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 7

    Thank you very much for sharing the experience. This will be passed along the teams to see what can be improved.

    Sad to see forum being used to apply public pressure. There are many ways to contact us to, for example, request an expedite by contacting sales, for example.

    That setup time is not usual for us, for sure. Usually these changes take around 3-5 working days. They are also done under SLA if placed at the same time as the order for the server. This order has however been different. It’s an upgrade request to an existing service. Raised red flags the Customer is aware about and subsequently been delayed due to changes required and the job queue. Later the order was parked as the account was placed on a billing hold multiple times. We have never promised any ETAs and advised the service reconfiguration after provisioning are done on best effort basis. Our T&Cs have terms to that effect.

    To provide a background. Clouvider provides a BGP session through a dedicated VLAN to one of the routers.. The Customer initially purchased a service with no BGP service that needs a complete re-deployment from the network perspective after this change has been requested. Configuration changes are done on best effort basis and by agreement of both parties.

    Initially the Customer has provided an ASN registered to a completely different entity, in a completely different country. This has raised a number of red flags and indeed additional KYC - Customer has complied with it.

    The Customer’s ASN import policy/export policy has not mentioned Clouvider - again we have asked for this to be amended - for the routing security, especially given earlier flags. We have also requested an LoA authorising the use of this ASN by a completely different entity to one that owned the ASN vs the one that bought a service from us. This has been complied with.

    The particular changes required to setup the session to that server can only be performed by our senior network engineer and are done on the best effort basis.

    In the meantime the account has been placed on billing hold and that continues to be the case meaning no changes are considered at this time.

    We have been responding to the Customer in a timely manner.

    We don’t take public pressure kindly. Clearly since the Customer has felt the need to name and shame us - we are not the best fit to provide their service any more. We will therefore reach out and offer a full refund instead with our apologies.

    Hope this clarifies.

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • lil bro just got booted 💀

    Thanked by 1MikeA
  • @jiggawattz said:

    @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review

    Good response from @Clouvider will turn this thread into a positive!

    Or throw a fit and disable the guy's account.

  • edited September 7

    yes I was very much aware about all the "red flags".

    despite the numerous red flags, I've complied with all of your requirements on the same day I requested & paid for BGP.

    @Clouvider said: The particular changes required to setup the session to that server can only be performed by our senior network engineer and are done on the best effort basis.

    Is 20+ days counts as "best effort basis?"

    @Clouvider said: We don’t take public pressure kindly. Clearly since the Customer has felt the need to name and shame us - we are not the best fit to provide their service. We will therefore reach out and offer a full refund instead.

    I don't think that's the case. I've said above that I never said anything negative about your service.

    Truthfully, if you solve this issue, this would turn into a positive thread and more of a "experience thread" for potential customers interested in your BGP service to read.

  • Poor clotvider felt immense pressure from you publicly mentioning his name :/ So sad. I hope he gets over it, maybe a psychiatrist can help.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 7

    @nanankcornering said:
    yes I was very much aware about all the "red flags".

    despite the numerous red flags, I've complied with all of your requirements on the same day I requested & paid for BGP.

    And we have acknowledged that.

    @Clouvider said: The particular changes required to setup the session to that server can only be performed by our senior network engineer and are done on the best effort basis.

    Is 20+ days counts as "best effort basis?"

    Yes. Especially given the earlier red flags and the fact one has a billing hold flag applied a number of time on the account for some overdue bills.

    No changes are considered when the account is in bad standing.

    We do offer the expedite the service if the wait is too long, but in general any such request should be specified at the time of order to be considered under SLA.

    @Clouvider said: We don’t take public pressure kindly. Clearly since the Customer has felt the need to name and shame us - we are not the best fit to provide their service. We will therefore reach out and offer a full refund instead.

    I don't think that's the case. I've said above that I never said anything negative about your service.

    Truthfully, if you solve this issue, this would turn into a positive thread and more of a "experience thread" to read for potential customers interested your BGP service.

    It would be unfair to everyone else that follows the normal process to expedite the order based on public naming and shaming, sorry.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @drizbo said:

    @jiggawattz said:

    @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review

    Good response from @Clouvider will turn this thread into a positive!

    Or throw a fit and disable the guy's account.

    We didn’t disable anything, did not affect any active services.
    We have indeed offered a refund for the service we did not provide yet - one the OP is complaining about. We felt this is in the best interest of both the OP and the company, given the apparent relationship breakdown that must have led to this thread in the first place.

  • edited September 7

    @Clouvider said: Yes. Especially if one has a billing hold flag on the account for some overdue bills. Ticket still open with billing.

    Well it's an opportunity cost.

    should I pay my overdue bills.. and wait in uncertainty for BGP..? or spend it on another provider who could provide BGP with reasonable timeframe?

    @Clouvider said: It would be unfair to everyone else that follows the normal process to expedite the order based on public naming and shaming, sorry.

    Sadly, I followed the normal process for 20+ days till now with no avail.

    I thought this thread was going to end in "..we're sorry that it's taking this long, we're going to improve our process, this shouldn't happened.. we will take note for future customers.. etc", but sadly it turned the other way.

    anyways, thanks everyone for helping

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 7

    @nanankcornering said:

    @Clouvider said: Yes. Especially if one has a billing hold flag on the account for some overdue bills. Ticket still open with billing.

    Well it's an opportunity cost.

    should I pay my overdue bills.. and wait in uncertainty for BGP..? or spend it on another provider who could provide BGP with reasonable timeframe?

    To clarify, your expectation was that further services will continue to be provided when the bills are not being paid? Twice in that timeframe?

    Sorry, but that’s not how we do business. We already agreed how we do, namely in the section Fees and Payments of the T&Cs you’ve signed.

  • @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    How can you expect provider's respect / loyalty after doing that?

    I recommend you PM Clouvider here and or take the conversation into tickets again.

    see what happened OP? once negative comment is public, time to pack up and leave.

    Thanked by 1scooke
  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @nanankcornering said:

    @Clouvider said: It would be unfair to everyone else that follows the normal process to expedite the order based on public naming and shaming, sorry.

    Sadly, I followed the normal process for 20+ days till now with no avail.

    Well, you didn’t - your account for at least twice on a billing hold in that timeframe you’re constantly referring to, and still is.

    I thought this thread was going to end in "..we're sorry that it's taking this long, we're going to improve our process, this shouldn't happened.. we will take note for future customers.. etc", but sadly it turned the other way.

    It would’ve have a better chance of your desired if you kept your account with us in a good standing and discussed this with us in private.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @cybertech said:

    @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    How can you expect provider's respect / loyalty after doing that?

    I recommend you PM Clouvider here and or take the conversation into tickets again.

    see what happened OP? once negative comment is public, time to pack up and leave.

    OP is more than welcome to stay. We’re sorry it turned out this way, we wish it didn’t. We do not agree with the narrative though and we don’t, out of fairness to some of loyal Customers, bow to this kind of pressure in public.

  • damn it's taking another turn now..

    @Clouvider said: Well, you didn’t - your account for at least twice on a billing hold in that timeframe you’re constantly referring to, and still is.

    So you're now blaming my billing status? Shouldn't you bring that up on the provisioning ticket?

    @Clouvider said: It would’ve have a better chance of your desired if you kept your account with us in a good standing and discussed this with us in private.

    What kind of discussions are you expecting? I ask for updates and the answer was always "there's no SLA in provisioning BGP.."

    @cybertech said: see what happened OP? once negative comment is public, time to pack up and leave.

    :/

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @nanankcornering said:
    damn it's taking another turn now..

    @Clouvider said: Well, you didn’t - your account for at least twice on a billing hold in that timeframe you’re constantly referring to, and still is.

    So you're now blaming my billing status? Shouldn't you bring that up on the provisioning ticket?

    @Clouvider said: It would’ve have a better chance of your desired if you kept your account with us in a good standing and discussed this with us in private.

    What kind of discussions are you expecting? I ask for updates and the answer was always "there's no SLA in provisioning BGP.."

    @cybertech said: see what happened OP? once negative comment is public, time to pack up and leave.

    :/

    We have provided an exhaustive response already. If you’d like to discuss it further please raise a case with the team.

  • MumblyMumbly Member
    edited September 7

    @Clouvider said:

    @cybertech said:

    @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    How can you expect provider's respect / loyalty after doing that?

    I recommend you PM Clouvider here and or take the conversation into tickets again.

    see what happened OP? once negative comment is public, time to pack up and leave.

    OP is more than welcome to stay. We’re sorry it turned out this way, we wish it didn’t. We do not agree with the narrative though and we don’t, out of fairness to some of loyal Customers, bow to this kind of pressure in public.

    Let's be honest here, people rent service because of they need it in a timely manner, not one month later, so it's you the one who dropped the ball here and all what followed after his posted experience/review was just a little bit of personal revenge from your side not a business decision :)
    Business decision woud be: "oops.. we really fucked up a bit here, it's sorted up now, we're sorry. If there's anything else we can do for you don't hesitate to contact us".
    You're human too, I get it, but lets not play a victim here.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @Mumbly said:

    @Clouvider said:

    @cybertech said:

    @Hxxx said:
    I never understood the risk people take to leave a bad review while having service with the provider.

    How can you expect provider's respect / loyalty after doing that?

    I recommend you PM Clouvider here and or take the conversation into tickets again.

    see what happened OP? once negative comment is public, time to pack up and leave.

    OP is more than welcome to stay. We’re sorry it turned out this way, we wish it didn’t. We do not agree with the narrative though and we don’t, out of fairness to some of loyal Customers, bow to this kind of pressure in public.

    Let's be honest here, people rent service because of they need it in a timely manner, not one month later, so it's you the one who dropped the ball here and all what followed after his posted experience/review was just a little bit of personal revenge from your side not a business decision :)
    You're human too, I get it, but lets not play a victim here.

    There’s always room for an improvement. We agree it could’ve been handled better, of course. Improvements will be made and lessons will be learned.

    The narrative is however unfair and this is what we challenged here.

    The dedicated server was provided in a timely manner. It’s after provisioning that the Customer has request a change. Change that was from the beginning flagged as suspicious and subsequently delayed multiple times due to many factors. Among others the Customer’s account being twice on hold in that time. The account remains on a billing hold.

    This is for a change that required service re-deployment from the network side, and the kind of change that requires senior team to implement.

    We don’t provide any new services or execute any changes for accounts in bad standing so it’s simply unfair to say the Customer was waiting 25 days.

    We also don’t expedite orders based on a pressure from a public forum.

  • edited September 7

    @Clouvider said: We don’t provide any new services or execute any changes for accounts in bad standing so it’s simply unfair to say the Customer was waiting 25 days.

    We also don’t expedite orders based on a pressure from a public forum.

    Well you are changing the narrative now. From saying no SLA and now my billing status.

    Your team didn't said anything about billing status in the provisioning ticket. If you said, "we can only continue provisioning your request if your remaining bills have been paid.."

    that's fair. but blaming my billing status now.. that's unfair for me.

    @Mumbly said: Let's be honest here, people rent service because of they need it in a timely manner, not one month later

    I agree with you.

    If the case was pre-ordering a server, that's understandable especially with the shortage that's been happening. if it takes 3 months, that's sounds normal to me..

    but waiting weeks for something that only needs configuration...??

    and I didn't ask the request to be expedited? I'm just asking whether it's normal or not to wait 20+ days for BGP?

    If the answer from fellow providers was yes, then it's ok.

  • MumblyMumbly Member
    edited September 7

    @Clouvider said: We don’t provide any new services or execute any changes for accounts in bad standing

    So this was the actual reason?
    @nanankcornering can you comment that?

    edit.
    nevermind, you just did it above.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 7

    @nanankcornering said:

    @Clouvider said: We don’t provide any new services or execute any changes for accounts in bad standing so it’s simply unfair to say the Customer was waiting 25 days.

    We also don’t expedite orders based on a pressure from a public forum.

    Well you are changing the narrative now. From saying no SLA and now my billing status.

    Your team didn't said anything about billing status in the provisioning ticket. If you said, "we can only continue provisioning your request if your remaining bills have been paid.."

    that's fair. but blaming my billing status now.. that's unfair for me.

    You have been informed on at least one occasion by billing team and many times by automated emails of your bills being overdue. We agree we could have reminded you more times, or reiterated the contractual terms, but it’s ultimately up to you to ensure you pay the bills on time.

    Yes, there’s no SLA on network changes,
    Or any changes for that matter, requested after the service is delivered.

    Your order has been delayed by multiple factors. A major change requiring senior staff member to execute surely takes longer.

    This was further hampered by the fact your account was on hold - and the many red flags raised by your request.

    Your narrative is however unfair as you’re saying you did nothing wrong and big bad Clouvider didn’t provide you with the service for 20+ days, while not paying your bills. That is simply incorrect and unfair.

    Nevertheless we have offered a full refund and apologies for the troubles.

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • edited September 7

    @Clouvider said: You have been informed on at least one occasion by billing team and many times by automated emails of your bills being overdue. We agree we could have reminded you more times, or reiterated the contractual terms, but it’s ultimately up to you to ensure you pay the bills on time.

    There's 0 mention regarding billing status on the provisioning ticket, and keep saying about no SLA.

    I paid the overdue bills that Julia sent on Aug 19 (requested BGP on Aug 17!!), hoping that it would be provisioned before end of month.

    and here it is, start of a new month, no BGP and a new overdue bill.

    @Clouvider said: Your order has been delayed by multiple factors. A major change requiring senior staff member to execute surely takes longer.

    i mean.. during that 20+ days timeframe, there's no senior staff member not available? there's 5 working days in a week right? surely they got some time..

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 7

    @nanankcornering said:

    @Clouvider said: Your order has been delayed by multiple factors. A major change requiring senior staff member to execute surely takes longer.

    i mean.. during that 20+ days timeframe, is the senior staff member not available? there's 5 working days in a week right? surely he got some time..

    There were. Your ticket was first not ready as the red flags were being checked. Then your account was in billing freee. And the. On billing freeze again.

    We’ve been around the block for years. Our Customers are generally very happy with the services we provide.

    Surely you can accept that your own actions have influenced the outcome, right? Even though they did, and you decided to pressure us by naming and shaming, we have offered you a full refund, no questions asked. That’s despite you still owe us money!

    @nanankcornering said:

    There's 0 mention regarding billing status on the provisioning ticket, and keep saying about no SLA.

    We don’t review the provisioning tickets of accounts in bad standing. Please ensure your bills are paid on time in the future.

  • To be fair, any sane costumer will be hard pressed to pay their next month's bill when something they requested is taking long to be implemented, could have been stated on the change request ticket "Since you have not paid for your bills, your change request is not on our priority list, please settle it as soon as possible" & all this would have been averted and you will have a loyal customer instead.

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