LowEndBox v2.0 is LIVE!

jbiloh

It's worth mentioning that the bounce rate on LowEndBox went from 61% to 53% after the launch of the new design.

SirFoxy

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@Kebab said:

@MeAtExampleDotCom said:

@Kebab said: I don't like that it's too wide, I don't like moving my head.

You could always use a thinner browser window? Or zoom or high-DPI settings, and sit further back.

“Your design is too wide when I have the browser full width on my monitor that is uncomfortably wide for my field of view when I sit close to it” always puts me in mind of Red Dwarf's “also, human eyes don't seem to have a zoom function” in reverse!

Under Windows you can use the default half-screen behaviour (win+left or win+right - though at 1920px with default scaling it doesn't look good half-screen, I'm not near the bigger screens to check on them ATM), or for finer grained control there is FancyZones in MS' PowerToys and a number of 3rd party options, and there have similar options on Linux (depending on what window/desktop manager you prefer) for as long as I can remember using it much on desktop.

or the site could be thinner

I will look at options to see if we can cut the width by 5-7% by reducing margins, etc. It's too late to make any major changes.

The boxed layout is ridiculously stupid.

People don't read blogs for images, they read it for content.

Make it easy for people to consume your content.

Seems like a designer or programmer came up with that.

So you'd prefer the 90's style text wall?

Is it just a matter of image size (in that you'd prefer smaller headline images)?

It's not about 90's style of text, you can still be modern.

Let me ask you:

Do people come to Lowendbox for the content?

Content and deals.

The old design caused both to get lost once they left the home page (4-5 recent blog posts). The new design makes content accessible and more quality stuff evergreen.

Focus on the content and deals.

More specifically, focus on good headlines.

The current way you have it set up alternating between two styles is a cluster fuck.

Of course you can keep the images, but focus on a more spaced out style as follows:

[Headline]
[Subheadline]
[Image]

Nobody clicks on your articles for the images, and if they wanted an image with solely text they would just click a good headline.

It's too cluttered, confusing.

You can mix old school with modern, old school is old school because it works.

SirFoxy

@Arkas said:

@SirFoxy said: People pay me to increase engagement? I'm literally a fucking copywriter.

And I'm a content creator, so?

Fuck off.

I see you are showing your copywriting skills

It's not worth arguing with you, aren't you supposed to be a moderator fuckwit?

Arkas

@SirFoxy said: It's not worth arguing with you, aren't you supposed to be a moderator fuckwit?

I'm also a member and simply asked you a question and commented.

jbiloh

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@Kebab said:

@MeAtExampleDotCom said:

@Kebab said: I don't like that it's too wide, I don't like moving my head.

You could always use a thinner browser window? Or zoom or high-DPI settings, and sit further back.

“Your design is too wide when I have the browser full width on my monitor that is uncomfortably wide for my field of view when I sit close to it” always puts me in mind of Red Dwarf's “also, human eyes don't seem to have a zoom function” in reverse!

Under Windows you can use the default half-screen behaviour (win+left or win+right - though at 1920px with default scaling it doesn't look good half-screen, I'm not near the bigger screens to check on them ATM), or for finer grained control there is FancyZones in MS' PowerToys and a number of 3rd party options, and there have similar options on Linux (depending on what window/desktop manager you prefer) for as long as I can remember using it much on desktop.

or the site could be thinner

I will look at options to see if we can cut the width by 5-7% by reducing margins, etc. It's too late to make any major changes.

The boxed layout is ridiculously stupid.

People don't read blogs for images, they read it for content.

Make it easy for people to consume your content.

Seems like a designer or programmer came up with that.

So you'd prefer the 90's style text wall?

Is it just a matter of image size (in that you'd prefer smaller headline images)?

It's not about 90's style of text, you can still be modern.

Let me ask you:

Do people come to Lowendbox for the content?

Content and deals.

The old design caused both to get lost once they left the home page (4-5 recent blog posts). The new design makes content accessible and more quality stuff evergreen.

Focus on the content and deals.

More specifically, focus on good headlines.

The current way you have it set up alternating between two styles is a cluster fuck.

Of course you can keep the images, but focus on a more spaced out style as follows:

[Headline]
[Subheadline]
[Image]

Nobody clicks on your articles for the images, and if they wanted an image with solely text they would just click a good headline.

It's too cluttered, confusing.

You can mix old school with modern, old school is old school because it works.

Inside the confines of the current new design what type of tweaks do you see as beneficial?

I always want to keep improving.

I agree that better headlines are something to focus on. Any suggestions there?

SirFoxy

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@Kebab said:

@MeAtExampleDotCom said:

@Kebab said: I don't like that it's too wide, I don't like moving my head.

You could always use a thinner browser window? Or zoom or high-DPI settings, and sit further back.

“Your design is too wide when I have the browser full width on my monitor that is uncomfortably wide for my field of view when I sit close to it” always puts me in mind of Red Dwarf's “also, human eyes don't seem to have a zoom function” in reverse!

Under Windows you can use the default half-screen behaviour (win+left or win+right - though at 1920px with default scaling it doesn't look good half-screen, I'm not near the bigger screens to check on them ATM), or for finer grained control there is FancyZones in MS' PowerToys and a number of 3rd party options, and there have similar options on Linux (depending on what window/desktop manager you prefer) for as long as I can remember using it much on desktop.

or the site could be thinner

I will look at options to see if we can cut the width by 5-7% by reducing margins, etc. It's too late to make any major changes.

The boxed layout is ridiculously stupid.

People don't read blogs for images, they read it for content.

Make it easy for people to consume your content.

Seems like a designer or programmer came up with that.

So you'd prefer the 90's style text wall?

Is it just a matter of image size (in that you'd prefer smaller headline images)?

It's not about 90's style of text, you can still be modern.

Let me ask you:

Do people come to Lowendbox for the content?

Content and deals.

The old design caused both to get lost once they left the home page (4-5 recent blog posts). The new design makes content accessible and more quality stuff evergreen.

Focus on the content and deals.

More specifically, focus on good headlines.

The current way you have it set up alternating between two styles is a cluster fuck.

Of course you can keep the images, but focus on a more spaced out style as follows:

[Headline]
[Subheadline]
[Image]

Nobody clicks on your articles for the images, and if they wanted an image with solely text they would just click a good headline.

It's too cluttered, confusing.

You can mix old school with modern, old school is old school because it works.

Inside the confines of the current new design what type of tweaks do you see as beneficial?

I always want to keep improving.

Drop the 3 image layout after every category, go back to a regular blog layout.

People don't visit Lowendbox for images.

Your too focused on the images.

Focus on the headlines & content.

jbiloh

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@Kebab said:

@MeAtExampleDotCom said:

@Kebab said: I don't like that it's too wide, I don't like moving my head.

You could always use a thinner browser window? Or zoom or high-DPI settings, and sit further back.

“Your design is too wide when I have the browser full width on my monitor that is uncomfortably wide for my field of view when I sit close to it” always puts me in mind of Red Dwarf's “also, human eyes don't seem to have a zoom function” in reverse!

Under Windows you can use the default half-screen behaviour (win+left or win+right - though at 1920px with default scaling it doesn't look good half-screen, I'm not near the bigger screens to check on them ATM), or for finer grained control there is FancyZones in MS' PowerToys and a number of 3rd party options, and there have similar options on Linux (depending on what window/desktop manager you prefer) for as long as I can remember using it much on desktop.

or the site could be thinner

I will look at options to see if we can cut the width by 5-7% by reducing margins, etc. It's too late to make any major changes.

The boxed layout is ridiculously stupid.

People don't read blogs for images, they read it for content.

Make it easy for people to consume your content.

Seems like a designer or programmer came up with that.

So you'd prefer the 90's style text wall?

Is it just a matter of image size (in that you'd prefer smaller headline images)?

It's not about 90's style of text, you can still be modern.

Let me ask you:

Do people come to Lowendbox for the content?

Content and deals.

The old design caused both to get lost once they left the home page (4-5 recent blog posts). The new design makes content accessible and more quality stuff evergreen.

Focus on the content and deals.

More specifically, focus on good headlines.

The current way you have it set up alternating between two styles is a cluster fuck.

Of course you can keep the images, but focus on a more spaced out style as follows:

[Headline]
[Subheadline]
[Image]

Nobody clicks on your articles for the images, and if they wanted an image with solely text they would just click a good headline.

It's too cluttered, confusing.

You can mix old school with modern, old school is old school because it works.

Inside the confines of the current new design what type of tweaks do you see as beneficial?

I always want to keep improving.

Drop the 3 image layout after every category, go back to a regular blog layout.

People don't visit Lowendbox for images.

Your too focused on the images.

Focus on the headlines & content.

Do you have an example of a similar type of website that you think does this well?

SirFoxy

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@SirFoxy said:

@jbiloh said:

@Kebab said:

@MeAtExampleDotCom said:

@Kebab said: I don't like that it's too wide, I don't like moving my head.

You could always use a thinner browser window? Or zoom or high-DPI settings, and sit further back.

“Your design is too wide when I have the browser full width on my monitor that is uncomfortably wide for my field of view when I sit close to it” always puts me in mind of Red Dwarf's “also, human eyes don't seem to have a zoom function” in reverse!

Under Windows you can use the default half-screen behaviour (win+left or win+right - though at 1920px with default scaling it doesn't look good half-screen, I'm not near the bigger screens to check on them ATM), or for finer grained control there is FancyZones in MS' PowerToys and a number of 3rd party options, and there have similar options on Linux (depending on what window/desktop manager you prefer) for as long as I can remember using it much on desktop.

or the site could be thinner

I will look at options to see if we can cut the width by 5-7% by reducing margins, etc. It's too late to make any major changes.

The boxed layout is ridiculously stupid.

People don't read blogs for images, they read it for content.

Make it easy for people to consume your content.

Seems like a designer or programmer came up with that.

So you'd prefer the 90's style text wall?

Is it just a matter of image size (in that you'd prefer smaller headline images)?

It's not about 90's style of text, you can still be modern.

Let me ask you:

Do people come to Lowendbox for the content?

Content and deals.

The old design caused both to get lost once they left the home page (4-5 recent blog posts). The new design makes content accessible and more quality stuff evergreen.

Focus on the content and deals.

More specifically, focus on good headlines.

The current way you have it set up alternating between two styles is a cluster fuck.

Of course you can keep the images, but focus on a more spaced out style as follows:

[Headline]
[Subheadline]
[Image]

Nobody clicks on your articles for the images, and if they wanted an image with solely text they would just click a good headline.

It's too cluttered, confusing.

You can mix old school with modern, old school is old school because it works.

Inside the confines of the current new design what type of tweaks do you see as beneficial?

I always want to keep improving.

Drop the 3 image layout after every category, go back to a regular blog layout.

People don't visit Lowendbox for images.

Your too focused on the images.

Focus on the headlines & content.

Do you have an example of a similar type of website that you think does this well?

In your lane from a UI and not necessarily UX perspective:

https://www.digitalmarketer.com/blog/

ravi

@jbiloh said:

I will look at options to see if we can cut the width by 5-7% by reducing margins, etc. It's too late to make any major changes.

You can simply wrap the content region (header / main / footer) in a container like this:
.container { position: relative; margin: 0 auto; width: 100%; max-width: 1200px; }

nikozin

From a designer perspective,

The font irks me so much. The text-body is too wide, the LET current width is decent. I'd put a serif font with 16 size (Georgia, Garamond etc.)

The article tiles/boxes should have borders, current design is confusing to the eyes. Some shades of grey in background will help differentiate.

szarka

My two cents: not a fan of the new layout. All I want is a reverse chronological list of posts so I can quickly check what's new. The old layout worked fine for that.

I did get a good chuckle out of today's "500 miles" humorous anecdote, though, so at least there's that.

jbiloh

@ravi said:

@jbiloh said:

I will look at options to see if we can cut the width by 5-7% by reducing margins, etc. It's too late to make any major changes.

You can simply wrap the content region (header / main / footer) in a container like this:
.container { position: relative; margin: 0 auto; width: 100%; max-width: 1200px; }

Thanks for the suggestion. Will look at doing this.

@nikozin said: The font irks me so much. The text-body is too wide, the LET current width is decent. I'd put a serif font with 16 size (Georgia, Garamond etc.)

I am looking into this now. Thanks for the suggestion. Other people have also said they do not like the font.

@szarka said: My two cents: not a fan of the new layout. All I want is a reverse chronological list of posts so I can quickly check what's new. The old layout worked fine for that.

We had to move away from the linear blog so that we can display more content more easily.

@szarka said: I did get a good chuckle out of today's "500 miles" humorous anecdote, though, so at least there's that.

Glad you enjoyed that!

eTechie

@jbiloh said:
We've added some vertical separation lines. What do you think?

Thanks I saw the update. I was thinking of horizontal line separators but I'm not sure how it will turn out to be. I got this idea from the Hosting Offers section near the middle of the HomePage and other similar blocks. I think they look a bit undifferentiated at places but can't decide what to implement in the design. This might decrease the bounce rate, however. The top block looks amazing imo.

DediRock

Congrats on the 2.0 launch!

jbiloh

I know that the size of "Related Posts" has been a common complaint for LEB 2.0.

So we made the following changes:

• On Desktop we reduced the text size.
• On Mobile we reduced the entire size of the module by about 75%, so it no longer consumes significant vertical scroll on mobile.

We are working on some other desktop tweaks right now.

More improvements every day.

jbiloh

I know some of the feedback has been that LEB 2.0 is too wide.

Here is a draft with the desktop viewport width reduced by about 10%. What do you think?

https://ibb.co/ryMRqxn

Not_Oles

My 2 cents: I like the new LEB layout width the way it is. It looks nice!

I don't understand what would be gained from reducing the viewport width. Maybe somebody in favor of reducing the viewport width could explain the expected benefit, please?

jbiloh

@Not_Oles said:
My 2 cents: I like the new LEB layout width the way it is. It looks nice!

I don't understand what would be gained from reducing the viewport width. Maybe somebody in favor of reducing the viewport width could explain the expected benefit, please?

Thanks for sharing your opinion @Not_Oles

Any other opinions on the more narrow design?

https://ibb.co/ryMRqxn

HalfEatenPie

@jbiloh said: https://ibb.co/ryMRqxn

Didn't know your name was Nikola.

Jokes aside, congratulations. Not exactly my preference but it's definitely a better change than the previous layout. I think the narrowed design makes more sense and "feels" better. The current design basically makes it too dense (content-wise) for smaller screens (it's fine on my own monitor though). For someone who is unfamiliar with the site, it might be off-putting to see so much text at once, making the content element more narrower will help with the "digesting" of the content.

nonissue

I do front end dev / design stuff for work, and so here is my two cents. I'm not going to actually crit every little problem or thing you should change, because I can't be bothered and it would take me hours.

The fundamental problems:

• Lack of visual hierarchy
• Overwhelming amount of information

They are related.

Here's a random list of problems as I come across them:

• Extremely cluttered viewport
• Way too many different fonts/font sizes/font weights
• The content most people are trying to consume is located 'below the fold' eg. I have to scroll (ON DESKTOP) just to even get a glimpse at the first blog post. The "deals" collapsible box is WAY too big and in a terrible position. I'd argue the way it's designed as an atomic component is really lacking. I quickly counted the number of links in the 'deals' box and it's around 50. FIVE ZERO. FIFTY. You need to get rid of this and/or reimplement this component in a easy to use and compelling way.
• You don't need two different menus. There's no reason to have both the one at the very top of the page, and then secondary one below the low end box logo.
• Blog post thumbnails look very similar to ads.
• Why are you showing two blog post previews side by side? Why are the thumbnails for these previews so big? Why don't the two previews span the full column width (eg. why aren't they as wide as the first blog post + it's preview image)?
• It's unnecessary that the 'About Lowendbox?" blurb is on the front page at all, but it's downright egregious to have it wasting some of the most important space available for new users.

On the plus side, your lighthouse scores are really, really good on both mobile and desktop, so that's a big win.

If you want to read about visual hierarchy, there's some info here:

https://2stallions.com/blog/effective-web-design-principles-visual-hierarchy/

I'm a little dubious of the concrete scientific claims UX researchers make about visual hierarchy, but I definitely do think it plays a role in a user's behaviour, and the lack of hierarchy to me is the biggest fundamental problem with the design. It's not just something you can fix by changing css, but improving the hierarchy will make the site a lot less intimidating to new visitors, and a lot less overwhelming for others.

TimRoo

Not sure how much this impacts the forum, but if there are any revisions there I'd like to suggest an auto close thread function. There's been a lot of necroposts and complaints about necroposts that seem unnecessary.

Arkas

@TimRoo said: but if there are any revisions there I'd like to suggest an auto close thread function

Vanilla doesn't support this function, unfortunately.

HalfEatenPie

@Arkas said:

@TimRoo said: but if there are any revisions there I'd like to suggest an auto close thread function

Vanilla doesn't support this function, unfortunately.

While vanilla base doesn't seem to, LET has now received enough funding that I believe it's valid to get something like this commissioned and built-in for a more custom/tailored experience. I believe this is valid criticism.

Arkas

@HalfEatenPie said: I believe this is valid criticism.

It is, and I agree with this. There are some other points made that some threads should not be closed, especially ones that might need an update down the road, so it was decided that it should be done manually. There are probably more important features that are more urgent to implement.

HalfEatenPie

@Arkas said:

@HalfEatenPie said: I believe this is valid criticism.

It is, and I agree with this. There are some other points made that some threads should not be closed, especially ones that might need an update down the road, so it was decided that it should be done manually. There are probably more important features that are more urgent to implement.

Honestly perfectly fair. Thanks for giving clarity on the internal discussions and decision making for that.

jbiloh

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to offer high quality feedback.

We are working to implement some of those ideas.

jbiloh

Just a quick note that yesterday we rolled out a change to reduce the width of LowEndBox's new theme by about 15%.

We also made an improvement to the mobile navigation when the BURGER icon is touched. Now all navigation links are in the same area (at the top) vs. the previous visual design where they were split half the links above the logo and half below.

Feedback welcome as always.