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Compromised internet companies

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  • As much as I can kick out Mormons from our property for trying to "have some friendly conversation" on a weekend, or carolers for trying to "spread joy" during dinnertime, or smelly people, rude people, loud people, personal enemies, etc., private companies can kick out users that are spreading shady speech on their servers.

    Thanked by 1bulbasaur
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited April 2022

    @woteti said: The freedom to refuse is essential in any free society. The Catholic Church has the freedom to refuse and block the propagation of Atheism, Islam, and Buddhism inside their properties.

    Yes, but they cannot refuse to allow people in during the open hours for as long as they do not do anything forbidden, even if they wear the yarmulke, the veil or a turban. They can ask politely those people to leave, but cannot really ban them from coming.
    Of course, if your mother is into making cakes, she can refuse to make it for anyone. If she has a business, then the business itself has the right to remove any ads for other cake makers inside their premises, but cannot stop people to order something with their own writing for as long as she offers this customization to the PUBLIC and the customization is legal.

  • @TimboJones said:

    The rights of people and corporations should not be the same.

    And how do you separate those? I have my own company, I'm the only employee, everything the company does, I do. And vice versa.
    Can I as a person refuse something, but I as a company can not? Then whats the point, in reality my rights as a person are the same as the rights of the company.

    Thanked by 2Logano bulbasaur
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @rcy026 said: And how do you separate those?

    Pretty easy, they call your listed company phone or email with the order, it is company, it is a friend asking over a glass of scotch, it is personal.

  • Management, well, all employees of companies, have an obligation to act in the best interests of their companies and owners/stockholders. If cancerous tumors are sighted operating on their platforms, they would be right to cut the tumors off. I don't agree with banning all Russians, but the noisy ones? Sure, no problem. It's not even a hard decision.

    Thanked by 2Maounique bulbasaur
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited April 2022

    @Logano said: the noisy ones? Sure, no problem.

    That is the idea, make a point, you are not going to use my premises for murderous propaganda. I wouldn't though, unless they are annoying other customers or are getting violent which is not about free speech.

    Thanked by 1Logano
  • wotetiwoteti Member
    edited April 2022

    @Maounique said:
    Yes, but they cannot refuse to allow people in during the open hours for as long as they do not do anything forbidden, even if they wear the yarmulke, the veil or a turban. They can ask politely those people to leave, but cannot really ban them from coming.
    Of course, if your mother is into making cakes, she can refuse to make it for anyone. If she has a business, then the business itself has the right to remove any ads for other cake makers inside their premises, but cannot stop people to order something with their own writing for as long as she offers this customization to the PUBLIC and the customization is legal.

    OK. But understand that all these dictates about what someone else can/can't do in regulating access to properties built and paid for by someone else's toil and resources amount to coercion.

    You were never promised that right to obligate others by

    • the most popular reference: the 1st amendment (it protects Chris Rock from Will Smith)
    • common carrier laws (it fails a simple test: discourse and wordpress are free, i.e any given internet platform is not the only railroad to your farms)
    • common sense philosophy (screaming free-something but espousing coercion).
    • the civil rights act (arbitrary belief is not protected class)

    Hence why you get nowhere.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited April 2022

    @woteti said: about what someone else can/can't do in regulating access to properties built and paid for by someone else's toil and resources amount to coercion.

    There is a simple solution to that, here, in Romania, neo-protestant cults adopted that one. They don't register as a church, just a house, people come and are allowed in only if they are members, a kind of private club if you would like.

    That being said, there are some requisites to register as an accepted cult, if you don't want that, fine, register as a non-profit, there are tax breaks but no subventions, a registered cult has much more benefits. I personally think the private club idea is best, this is how religion should be, not public, not subsidized, not political, not militant and not bellicose. They should not impose anything on me, I should not impose anything on them, I don't want taxes from them, but they should not receive anything from me either.

    The most important part, though, whatever their imaginary friend(s) tell(s) them, it is between themselves, not for the laws, not for political parties, not for schools, hospitals or the army. Keep out of my lawn and I would stay out of yours.

    Thanked by 1woteti
  • @Maounique said:

    @woteti said: Blocking how?

    Blocking in any way. Free speech is free speech, manipulation or not. We don't ban the sale of bleach because some idiot could be convinced by the idiot in chief to inject it in order to clear Covid, are we?
    I know the laws, I disagree with them even as I can understand where that comes from.

    No, but they put warnings and symbols on the box. It's more the attitude, "go ahead and sell your warez, we'll sue your ass into oblivion if we're harmed and you didn't tell us not to".

    @TimboJones said: Why? Sexual orientation is a protected class in the US and other places. It's against the law.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission

    Fucking religion. Again, the lower courts ruled it was against the law, just didn't do it cleanly and was overturned. I call that a technicality, unless I missed an invalidation of the law as a result.

    In a 7–2 decision, the Court ruled on narrow grounds that the Commission did not employ religious neutrality, violating Masterpiece owner Jack Phillips's rights to free exercise, and reversed the Commission's decision. The Court did not rule on the broader intersection of anti-discrimination laws, free exercise of religion, and freedom of speech, due to the complications of the Commission's lack of religious neutrality.

    @TimboJones said: Why? Don't doctors have some oath to do right by their patients?

    Apparently, their imaginary friend takes precedence.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-abortion-access-idUSKBN1XT2HA

    Fucking hell. So glad a) I'm not a woman, b) live in the US with so many fucking religious fuckheads.

    @TimboJones said: Your view of allowing everything regardless would be a shitty world.

    As opposed to the perfect world where nutjobs make their own twitter and FB to conspire in peace towards the blowing up of pedophile pizza shops and kidnapping of ppl who do not agree with their crazy theories.
    I prefer them in the open.

    I'm not sure what you're saying, you just described now and it would be 1000x worse in "allow everything" world.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited April 2022

    @rcy026 said:

    @TimboJones said:

    The rights of people and corporations should not be the same.

    And how do you separate those? I have my own company, I'm the only employee, everything the company does, I do. And vice versa.

    When it comes the life and health, the person takes priority as my initial thought (I'm not a lawyer). In a sole proprietorship case (are you technically an employee in self-employed company? If given multiple choice between owner and employee, you'd select owner), there's not much difference. Your liability as a sole proprietor is not the same as a corporation or limited liability company. Corporations get away with doing way more damage than you could on your own but would face much higher penalties than the fuckwits at fortune 500 companies.

    Can I as a person refuse something, but I as a company can not? Then whats the point, in reality my rights as a person are the same as the rights of the company.

    I imagine that comes down to the circumstances. If you're at your kid's school, that's nothing business related. But something comes in on your work email, that's likely company area.

    I'm not a fan of religion, but I'd be annoyed if corporations had the same religious freedom as you as a person. Otherwise, they'd just Flying Spaghetti Monster the shit out of it to bend whatever laws in their favour.

  • @Maounique said:

    @woteti said: about what someone else can/can't do in regulating access to properties built and paid for by someone else's toil and resources amount to coercion.

    There is a simple solution to that, here, in Romania, neo-protestant cults adopted that one. They don't register as a church, just a house, people come and are allowed in only if they are members, a kind of private club if you would like.

    That being said, there are some requisites to register as an accepted cult, if you don't want that, fine, register as a non-profit, there are tax breaks but no subventions, a registered cult has much more benefits. I personally think the private club idea is best, this is how religion should be, not public, not subsidized, not political, not militant and not bellicose. They should not impose anything on me, I should not impose anything on them, I don't want taxes from them, but they should not receive anything from me either.

    The most important part, though, whatever their imaginary friend(s) tell(s) them, it is between themselves, not for the laws, not for political parties, not for schools, hospitals or the army. Keep out of my lawn and I would stay out of yours.

    +1000

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited April 2022

    @TimboJones said: I'm not sure what you're saying, you just described now and it would be 1000x worse in "allow everything" world.

    Nope. Say I am a Q-Anon nutjob, a jihadi or citizen of Trumpistan.

    Would you rather have me "publishing" my theories in the open, talk about how "we" need to blow up pedophile pizza houses, a church or a synagogue, how to "citizen arrest" some governor for asking "us" to wear a mask or would you rather have me communicating untraceably online? Would you rather have me "explain" why we should kill "woke" niggers for forcing "critical race theory" on "our" kids or LGBTQ "propaganda"? Or X and Y senator/representative/governor for "conspiring" with "crisis actors" to take away our only means to resist "wokeism" and tyranny?

    If I am in the open, people would be able to challenge me, make me say what I "think", my "theories" would be proven to be what they are as well as the way of thinking which generates them, I would quote my "sources" and slowly we can reach the Putlerism behind them.

    If I am conspiring in the deep web you won't be able to find me so easily, challenge me and have a laugh. Ridendo castigat mores but not if you don't know where to find me and my "sources". In the open you can see how many we are, where and how we "tick", there won't be any more harm and much more fun. The number of idiotic and crazy people is limited, they WOULD manage to find their "soulmates" whether we "cancel" them or not.

  • @Maounique said: forbid discussing of slavery, discrimination etc. in schools

    I dont think you understand how schools work

    @Maounique said: forbid discussing of slavery, discrimination etc. in schools, forbid talking LGBT issues in various places

    @Maounique said: I am against blocking ANY kind of speech, even hate speech

    sure bud

    Thanked by 1bulbasaur
  • SaahibSaahib Host Rep, Veteran

    Someone please change its title, whatever it is , its not compromised companies. Everytime I see this topic, I get curious that even whole company get compromised (like compromised server) then again, author is talking everything but this topic is not about company being compromised.

    Thanked by 1Void
  • fynixfynix Member

    @Saahib said:
    Someone please change its title, whatever it is , its not compromised companies. Everytime I see this topic, I get curious that even whole company get compromised (like compromised server) then again, author is talking everything but this topic is not about company being compromised.

    Author can talk about anything and it won't change the fact that its the tinyweasel talk.

  • dane_dohertydane_doherty Member
    edited April 2022

    @fynix said:

    @Saahib said:
    Someone please change its title, whatever it is , its not compromised companies. Everytime I see this topic, I get curious that even whole company get compromised (like compromised server) then again, author is talking everything but this topic is not about company being compromised.

    Author can talk about anything and it won't change the fact that its the tinyweasel talk.

    Bro you signed up Dec 2021 and from the beginning you only talk about tinyweasel. Pretty suspicious, wouldn't you say.

    also literally have weasel in your avatar

  • @Maounique said:

    @TimboJones said: I'm not sure what you're saying, you just described now and it would be 1000x worse in "allow everything" world.

    Nope. Say I am a Q-Anon nutjob, a jihadi or citizen of Trumpistan.

    Would you rather have me "publishing" my theories in the open, talk about how "we" need to blow up pedophile pizza houses, a church or a synagogue, how to "citizen arrest" some governor for asking "us" to wear a mask or would you rather have me communicating untraceably online? Would you rather have me "explain" why we should kill "woke" niggers for forcing "critical race theory" on "our" kids or LGBTQ "propaganda"? Or X and Y senator/representative/governor for "conspiring" with "crisis actors" to take away our only means to resist "wokeism" and tyranny?

    I'd agree with you before the Internet, but not now. Before, the nutjob impact radius was limited to local region or word of mouth. Today, you have a single tweet get jihadists in other countries overnight.

    If I am in the open, people would be able to challenge me, make me say what I "think", my "theories" would be proven to be what they are as well as the way of thinking which generates them, I would quote my "sources" and slowly we can reach the Putlerism behind them.

    Oh boy. The difference here is you think they can be reasoned with and convinced they are wrong. That's what education system is for and when they're adults and nutjobs, the chance that rational discussion does sweet fuck all are small.

    If I am conspiring in the deep web you won't be able to find me so easily, challenge me and have a laugh. Ridendo castigat mores but not if you don't know where to find me and my "sources". In the open you can see how many we are, where and how we "tick", there won't be any more harm and much more fun. The number of idiotic and crazy people is limited, they WOULD manage to find their "soulmates" whether we "cancel" them or not.

    What you're talking about comes down to convenience and intelligence. Nothing changed wrt getting an informant on the inside, but now you're dealing with shit at scale, not some small group.

  • @neverain said:

    @Maounique said: forbid discussing of slavery, discrimination etc. in schools

    I dont think you understand how schools work

    @Maounique said: forbid discussing of slavery, discrimination etc. in schools, forbid talking LGBT issues in various places

    @Maounique said: I am against blocking ANY kind of speech, even hate speech

    sure bud

    I don't think you've heard of US school systems and their bonkers governors.

  • @dane_doherty said:

    @fynix said:

    @Saahib said:
    Someone please change its title, whatever it is , its not compromised companies. Everytime I see this topic, I get curious that even whole company get compromised (like compromised server) then again, author is talking everything but this topic is not about company being compromised.

    Author can talk about anything and it won't change the fact that its the tinyweasel talk.

    Bro you signed up Dec 2021 and from the beginning you only talk about tinyweasel. Pretty suspicious, wouldn't you say.

    also literally have weasel in your avatar

    Things are getting meta if two weasel alts are arguing over who are weasel alts.

  • At this point I'm going to ask @Mods to close this thread, things are spiralling out of control and obviously you haven't matured enough to discuss the topic yet.

    Thanked by 1Angelty78
  • jackbjackb Member, Host Rep

    @dane_doherty said:
    At this point I'm going to ask @Mods to close this thread, things are spiralling out of control and obviously you haven't matured enough to discuss the topic yet.

    Hang on, I thought you were against cancel culture. Why are you cancelling yourself?

    Thanked by 2bulbasaur Erisa
  • https://animeai.com/forum/member.php?u=162 have fun with this last gift of PII... anyway, goodbye

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited April 2022

    @TimboJones said: The difference here is you think they can be reasoned with and convinced they are wrong.

    Nope, not at all, what I mean is that they need to be in the open for the OTHER people to see. Say a trumpistani comes to explain the choir how their guy is the warrior of light godsent to quash the pedophile woke pizza sellers and reinstate the reign of the superior race and while most others there would agree, some people would probably reconsider.
    At this time many trumpistanis think they need those useful idiots madmen in order to get a "conservative" majority to put their ppl in the supreme court as well as all other courts, the army, the congress, DA offices, hospitals, schools, policing and whatnot. When they would see who else is part of that "majority" they might start to think for a change. I am not sure EVERYONE would think it is worth losing everything for the sake of getting the ban on abortions and LGBTQ people as well as a new segregation or at least removing the vote from most minority people. Hitler was a vegetarian, anti-alcoholic, anti-tobacco, animal lover, he made Germany great again but it was not really worth it giving up everything for that. Some people might see that.

    @TimboJones said: Today, you have a single tweet get jihadists in other countries overnight.

    And you think there won't be any without a tweet... Remember crusades? They didn't even have the printing press at the time. What about the first caliphates and the jihads? Those were illiterate people too albeit less so than those in Europe. The scale has nothing to do with the medium, but having a medium to mediate is likely to bring more people to the middle. At least in theory.

    @TimboJones said: What you're talking about comes down to convenience and intelligence. Nothing changed wrt getting an informant on the inside, but now you're dealing with shit at scale, not some small group.

    Of course, people try to ban encryption and Tor because it is more convenient to associate people with IPs than infiltrate the group as it used to be done, but you are advocating to push underground people who WANT to be in the open. So either encryption is bad because allows child molesters, drug dealers, woke niggers and whatnot to hide and continue their dastardly deeds against the hard working white superior race OR it is good because it allows "our" guys to hide from the oppression of common sense. If they wish to spread their lies and "organize" their coups in the open, fine, I say let them! There won't be an excuse not to act then, no more need for subpoenas, special committees, stuff like that... Everything would be online for everyone to see.

  • @jackb said: Hang on, I thought you were against cancel culture. Why are you cancelling yourself?

    There clearly is some terrorist activity going on in this thread and the usual rule doesn't apply.

  • @hyperblast said:
    flokinet.is full of jihad-terrorists

    What's wrong with that?

  • @Maounique said:
    I am not sure EVERYONE would think it is worth losing everything for the sake of getting the ban on abortions and LGBTQ people as well as a new segregation

    Agree to disagree. That was the thinking before Trump. It's only reinforced that the religious fucks don't care and will deal with the devil to get abortion and other stupid shit like shitty education.

    @TimboJones said: Today, you have a single tweet get jihadists in other countries overnight.

    And you think there won't be any without a tweet... Remember crusades? They didn't even have the printing press at the time. What about the first caliphates and the jihads? Those were illiterate people too albeit less so than those in Europe. The scale has nothing to do with the medium, but having a medium to mediate is likely to bring more people to the middle. At least in theory.

    Those were local to the region, not getting cunts from Canada, US and UK to join in.

    @TimboJones said: What you're talking about comes down to convenience and intelligence. Nothing changed wrt getting an informant on the inside, but now you're dealing with shit at scale, not some small group.

    Of course, people try to ban encryption and Tor because it is more convenient to associate people with IPs than infiltrate the group as it used to be done, but you are advocating to push underground people who WANT to be in the open. So either encryption is bad because allows child molesters, drug dealers, woke niggers and whatnot to hide and continue their dastardly deeds against the hard working white superior race OR it is good because it allows "our" guys to hide from the oppression of common sense. If they wish to spread their lies and "organize" their coups in the open, fine, I say let them! There won't be an excuse not to act then, no more need for subpoenas, special committees, stuff like that... Everything would be online for everyone to see.

    You're sounding naive that they'll publish the nefarious plans in the open to make it worth while, that's crazy. You're also happy to react after the fact after the horses left the barn, rather than prevent or reduce effects beforehand.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @TimboJones said: Those were local to the region, not getting cunts from Canada, US and UK to join in.

    At the time, Europe was in no way local to the middle east and America has not been discovered yet. The jihad went on from Central asia to africa and south-west europe, at that time those areas were literally at the ends of the world.

    @TimboJones said: You're sounding naive that they'll publish the nefarious plans in the open to make it worth while, that's crazy.

    Those people ARE crazy, of course they are bragging about their plans and they believe not only that they are doing right, but also that their rights would be infringed upon if anyone would attempt to intervene.

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