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Need to hire a dev to help transition to Vanilla 4.x
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Need to hire a dev to help transition to Vanilla 4.x

jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

In the second half of 2021 we reviewed Vanilla 4.x but concluded that the latest OSS code base was still too buggy.

Reading the last 10~ change logs from their monthly release program it seems like the latest software has really been improved. https://github.com/vanilla/vanilla/releases

There are plenty of modifications to our Vanilla implementation beyond the green look and simple design of our theme, so I expect there would be some heartburn trying to make the change.

Anyone out there interested in assisting us in a paid capacity to help make the move possible?

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Comments

  • devpdevp Member

    Better to opt for upgrade to a custom platform that suits the way the platform community expect to express.

  • Just use Flarum :sunglasses:

  • Are the customizations documented?

  • Migrate to Flarum or XenForo please :)

    Thanked by 3eva2000 Aractus Ticaga
  • xTomxTom Member, Patron Provider

    +1 for Xenforo

    Thanked by 1eva2000
  • mhnmhn Member

    @Roldan said:
    Migrate to Flarum or XenForo please :)

    I feel like a migration like that might break the overall atmosphere and feel of the forum. I personally like it more classic like how it looks now but with slight improvements and changes. This theme can easily be turned to be closer to the year 2022 standards with a few changes.

    Flarum might be a great alternative if the front end is being made to "clone" the Vanilla interface. By "cloning" I mean putting the buttons and stuff in the same place it was before, so it would not create confusion.

    Thanked by 3Wolf webcraft LordSpock
  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    The look and feel is very important in my mind. The way threads are presented is part of why lowendtalk is so active. We can't lose that.

    Incremental, not wholesale, change.

  • QuantumCoreQuantumCore Member, Host Rep

    If you had a dev that did all of the previous customisations and knew how the code all came together, they'd have quite the task to upgrade to the next version. For a dev to come in, have to learn the customisations and how the code all comes together and then to upgrade to the next version, that's a very big task and I'd say it would be costly if you want it done right.

    Hopefully you can find someone that can do it for you at a decent rate.

    Thanked by 1Daniel15
  • mhnmhn Member

    @jbiloh said:
    The look and feel is very important in my mind. The way threads are presented is part of why lowendtalk is so active. We can't lose that.

    Incremental, not wholesale, change.

    Glad to see we share the same viewpoint.
    If you need any work done on the front end, I'd be happy to help.

    Thanked by 1Offshore_Solutions
  • I think currently the site is running on 3.3? Have you tried yet the upgrade on a copy of the site locally/dev environment just to see the extent of damage/broken functionality?

    Having your own list of issues can be helpful.

    Skinning the new version shouldn't be an issue for a FE person. It's functionality that need to be checked after the upgrade. Custom code would probably be littered with PHP compatibility problems but shouldn't be a problem for a BE person to fix it.

    Goes without saying upgrades should never happen on the live site. Even after it is done from dev's end, we should get a uat.lowendtalk.com copy to do final validation by members before going live.

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran

    @Kassem said:
    I think currently the site is running on 3.3? Have you tried yet the upgrade on a copy of the site locally/dev environment just to see the extent of damage/broken functionality?

    Having your own list of issues can be helpful.

    Skinning the new version shouldn't be an issue for a FE person. It's functionality that need to be checked after the upgrade. Custom code would probably be littered with PHP compatibility problems but shouldn't be a problem for a BE person to fix it.

    Goes without saying upgrades should never happen on the live site. Even after it is done from dev's end, we should get a uat.lowendtalk.com copy to do final validation by members before going live.

    Agreed. I can help @jbiloh not a programmer / developer but I do similar tasks many times. Feel free to PM me.

  • raviravi Member

    You can consider me in the team for frontend related help.

  • I am interested. :)

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @ravi and @varwww thank you both.

    I'll reach out once the time comes. Currently working to get vanilla 4 going and then seeing how much is broken, etc.

  • hostdarehostdare Member, Patron Provider

    sure make a dev.let subdomain and upload the upgrade over there for members to review first to find broken things

  • devpdevp Member

    @hostdare said:
    sure make a dev.let subdomain and upload the upgrade over there for members to review first to find broken things

    Bug Bounty for BilohBucks.

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @devp said:

    @hostdare said:
    sure make a dev.let subdomain and upload the upgrade over there for members to review first to find broken things

    Bug Bounty for BilohBucks.

    It's got a certain ring to it.

    Thanked by 3devp Not_Oles bulbasaur
  • devpdevp Member

    @jbiloh said:

    @devp said:

    @hostdare said:
    sure make a dev.let subdomain and upload the upgrade over there for members to review first to find broken things

    Bug Bounty for BilohBucks.

    It's got a certain ring to it.

    Nice.

  • @Roldan said:
    Migrate to Flarum or XenForo please :)

    XenForo. Flarum will be missing too many essential features for a community of this size, plus its UI is very very different whereas you can configure XenForo to be similar to Vanilla.

  • edited April 2022

    @jbiloh said:
    In the second half of 2021 we reviewed Vanilla 4.x but concluded that the latest OSS code base was still too buggy.

    There are plenty of modifications to our Vanilla implementation beyond the green look and simple design of our theme, so I expect there would be some heartburn trying to make the change.

    Anyone out there interested in assisting us in a paid capacity to help make the move possible?

    Jon, I recommend sending an inquiry private message to Exobyte Tech:
    https://twitter.com/exobyte_tech

    They have done great work on our Vanilla Forum & after approximately 26 various Vanilla projects to install/modify/custom skin/custom Script/etc, they have reached the expert level with Vanilla. Their expertise is as a PHP coder, the language Vanilla is written in.

    Exobyte was ready and confident to upgrade us to Vanilla 4 but I'm worried that all the custom modifications Exobyte implemented with Vanilla 3 will break. For example, WebHostingTalk never upgrades to the new version of vBulletin because all their custom modifications will break.

    @jbiloh, can I ask what is driving you to upgrade to Vanilla 4? Are you certain the exploit of the avatar service "Gravatar" revealed by the TinyWeasel hack is fixed in Vanilla 4? I'm referring to this below exploit:


    There is a "vuln" in Vanilla though, that it uses a deterministic process to obtain the avatar [Gravatar] from the email address and I believe tinyweasel is exploiting that. See also: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/online-avatar-service-gravatar-allows-mass-collection-of-user-info/

  • bulbasaurbulbasaur Member
    edited April 2022

    @Offshore_Solutions said: There is a "vuln" in Vanilla though, that it uses a deterministic process to obtain the avatar [Gravatar] from the email address and I believe tinyweasel is exploiting that. See also: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/online-avatar-service-gravatar-allows-mass-collection-of-user-info/

    We seriously need that plagiarism detector.
    https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/3406205#Comment_3406205

    Copy-paste much?

    FWIW the aforementioned user runs a "competitor" to LET whose content comes from, well you guessed it, copying snippets from LET and OGF. So just another day for the said user.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • AltesAltes Member

    With all due respect, spending any time on staying with any Vanilla branch would be a bad idea in general, not because of the overall community aspect, but because of the future as well.

    This has nothing to do with me praising XenForo, or putting Vanilla down. But if your aim is to preserve the community and make sure that it's going to work for everyone features wise (custom reactions, chat, live PM's, badges, etc) then you have no other choice but to transfer to XenForo and re-do all of the features that you want to remain, incl. the forum layout.

    Forum layout is hardly an issue with XenForo, there are many talented designers like SkinMyForum.com who developed WJunction.com -- which kinda resembles LowEndTalk's layout right now. But yes, everything that Vanilla has is most definitely doable in XenForo for less than <$1,000 USD.

    Basically, just think about it, but if you do go with XenForo -- you will have a certain peace of mind and ease knowing that you're going to be fine (to a point) because huge brands like IGN are on it, and it's pretty much the only serious community software left standing (in my humble opinion), and even though it's paid software. Its cost pales in comparison to what you can achieve with it, and LowEndTalk would most certainly benefit from its anti-spam features, and layout customization (users can choose their own layout without a fuss, etc).

  • use flarum, but make themes like old one

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @jbiloh Is there enough funding to facilitate a migration to a new platform?

    Thanked by 1Offshore_Solutions
  • edited April 2022

    @stevewatson301 said:

    @Offshore_Solutions said: There is a "vuln" in Vanilla though, that it uses a deterministic process to

    We seriously need that plagiarism detector.

    I think you're the only person on LET to assume that I was writing an original exploit. Of course I copied & pasted the "exploit" word-for-word from the recent thread as I referred to that thread specifically:
    "...the exploit of the avatar service "Gravatar" revealed by the TinyWeasel hack."

    Referring to a source & copying a description of an "exploit" someone else found is not plagiarism, it's called "fair use."

    @stevewatson301 said:
    ...user runs a "competitor" to LET whose content comes from, well you guessed it, copying snippets from LET and OGF. So just another day for the said user.

    ONCE, over a year ago, I copied a brilliant post from Jvnadr. Yes I should have credited it to LET and I went back and edited that thread the same day when my Moderator pointed it out. It was an unintentional mistake which I apologized for & you see proper credit is given:
    https://hostboards.com/discussion/4238/some-free-alternative-control-panels-to-cpanel-to-consider/p1

    "User "Jvnadr" from LowEndTalk has written this great comparison of free control panels you have the option to use:"

  • @stevewatson301 said: FWIW the aforementioned user runs a "competitor" to LET whose content comes from, well you guessed it, copying snippets from LET and OGF. So just another day for the said user.

    It wasn't only copied contents from both the forums but I recall someone saying that even the accounts were created to mimic some of there users from here or the other forum. There was a discussion related to this topic but I can't find it. It was about someone's post or thread being copied and posted there.

  • edited April 2022

    @TWC said:
    Basically, just think about it, but if you do go with XenForo -- you will have a certain peace of mind and ease knowing that you're going to be fine (to a point) because huge brands like IGN are on it, and it's pretty much the only serious community software left standing

    And yet LowEndTalk is now the world's #1 Hosting forum using Vanilla & there are several others successful on Vanilla. It's the casual feel of LET that Vanilla gives users that they enjoy & have come to expect.

    Xenforo is all business, buttoned-up & proper, not at all reflecting the irreverent, "free-for-all" spirit of LET. Why fix what's not broken?

    We watched VPSboard.com suffer a slow, agonizing death when they made the mistake of using XenForo.

    @malignify said:
    I recall someone saying that even the accounts were created to mimic some of there users from here.

    I found the whole "Alpha Racks" pump & dump situation hilarious. As an Easter Egg reference to "Alpha Racks" (paying homage to him) I created a spoof of "Alpha Racks." It's a joke for entertainment. There's no other mimic account besides "Alpha Racks."

  • @0xOkami said:
    Just use Flarum :sunglasses:

    Someone did :D https://upto.pw

    Thanked by 2quicksilver03 dosai
  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @Offshore_Solutions said: And yet LowEndTalk is now the world's #1 Hosting forum using Vanilla & there are several others successful on Vanilla. It's the casual feel of LET that Vanilla gives users that they enjoy & have come to expect.

    Xenforo is all business, buttoned-up & proper, not at all reflecting the irreverent, "free-for-all" spirit of LET. Why fix what's not broken?

    Couldn't agree with you more.

  • KermEdKermEd Member
    edited April 2022

    I have no interest in this,

    But would like to share the advice on minimizing as much as absolutely posisble any modifications you make.

    Modifying anything, carries a life long technical debt of maintenance and updates.

    It will slow down how fast you can implement some critical security patch and done wrong could stop you from feasibly upgrading indefinitely. Or, more likely, some unexperienced developer will leave a hole in your API that lets some guy download your user accounts.

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