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Growing pains with amateurish customer service at startups ... x4b.net & crossbox.io
Just want to vent my frustration with these two companies.
1) x4b.net
Wanted to use a reverse proxy protection with something other than Cloudflare. Signed up for a plan. Site is proxying fine, but SSL (Letsencrypt) doesn't want to generate SSL.
Submitted a ticket with them and asked if they know what's going on with the SSL certificate.
This is where the amateurish customer service begins.
The error message provided by lets encrypt doesnt appear to have anything particularly interesting in it. I'd suggest checking your DNS and configuration for any issues.
The DNS is clearly working fine (as I can see the site working. The site is using the self-signed SSL via their portal.)
Again, the lets encrypt error message doesnt really tell me anything of interest. you are welcome to research the message (which we provide to you). When you are certain you have resolved it you can re-enable (or delete for recreation) the attempted SSL certificate (which has long since been disabled due to excessive failures).
And of course that he's just rephrasing the same response. Can't help you, you need to fix it on your own
and this is where I questioned him, why even put in the feature if there's is no proper workflow to troubleshoot it.
Ok great! "lets encrypt error message doesnt really tell you anything of interest". As a customer, I love to hear that.
But this is a feature your service integrate and provides as a included feature. Are you expect the customer to debug this for you?
Are you being serious?
If your service can't properly provide a workflow with letsencrypt including full debug, why even bother providing this. You are just making the customer frustrated.
and next response = ticket close.
I've given you my suggestion of what to do to resolve your issue (both to check your DNS configuration and to try again). Lets Encrypt rejected your order, why is not clear and neither the error message or what I can see of your configuration provides any indication.
Anyway I'm not here to receive abuse, closing.
There is nothing I said to him that is "abusive". A paying customer that is questioning the company's ability to provide proper adequate troubleshoot tool for the customer to resolve an issue should be there and is completely normal.
If you look at cpanel's AutoSSL logs, you get the full log why the SSL is not renewing/generating. With x4b, nothing...
So I opened a new ticket to continue my conversation, I asked for a refund because they are not able to provide a working service.
Seriously.... I tried to have a conversation with you, I didn't call you names. I questioned why is letsencrypt even an included feature if you can't provide a proper workflow for debugging.
Which I understand that you can't answer, because so far your only answer you had provided me is "letsencrypt isn't telling you anything"
Fairly disappointed in your service so far and your lack of care for the customer's issue.
Since you decided to reach an endpoint of customer service, perhaps it is best for you to provide a refund and we go about our merry way.
... and of course the same reply.
You are welcome to cancel your service at any time. With no further charge. We do not offer refunds for change of mind. Nor do we offer refunds based on the suitability of a third party CA. Lets Encrypt is free to reject any domain name for any reason, this is not a reflection on the services we provide.
We can not provide you information we do not have, however in your (closed due to support abuse) ticket you were given two suggestions to for things to a) look into and b) perform. We can not do this for you without a management contract and access to your domain panel and all relevant resources from which to troubleshoot your configuration.
Not going to bore you guys with more lame quotes, but this is the last response.
We provide you with all the available output (the HTTP error message provided by lets encrypt, or in the event of a communication error the exception text). This is all there is for us to provide.
We are currently renewing over 13,000 certificatesand we are not aware of any problems with LE or the AcmePHP client. Most failures are user error and related to DNS configuration or propagation (both we can't see as they are managed by you).
Of course... there are no issue with the system if others are working. Perfect way to troubleshoot
Ended up applying the previous letsencrypt SSL I had with my cpanel for the particular domain. Later cancelled the service.
2) crossbox.io
Created a ticket last week with them to notify them I cannot pay the invoice. I'm getting error messages when checking out with paypal.
Trying to pay the invoice but I'm getting the following
Error: Api: /smart/api/order/3BV5296811062891V/capture returned ack: permission_denied (Corr ID: f5991515abb05) {"ack":"permission_denied","message":"Insufficient privileges"}
Well, here comes the standard "it's not us, it's you response"
Hello,
we are receiving payments from other customers without an issue.
Maybe you are trying to pay via mobile phone? Try from a computer.
Thank you, The CrossBox Team
I proceeded with recording and showing a screen capture of the issue for them
Hello,
we have no control over the PayPal API nor your PayPal account, and since other customers are paying without an issue we can only conclude that the problem is not on our side.
Maybe you can try a "Debit or Credit card" button instead of PayPal button and try to pay with debit/credit card directly.
If you'll be contacting the PayPal support you can send them the error that you're getting from their API (permission_denied).
Thank you, The CrossBox Team
Now, throughout the years I've used paypal to pay vendors. I've never heard of the payee's API would stop the paypee from making the payment. It's always the receiver end. So there is absolutely no reason for me to contact paypal and even if I contact paypal. The chances of a customer service rep fixing this issue is close to nil. It'll be a complete waste of time.
Hello,
sorry but there is nothing we can do on our side - we are receiving PayPal payments all the time without any issues reported by other customers.
The only thing we can do is extend your due date for a week to give you some time to contact PayPal and resolve the issue.
Did you try the "Credit/Debit card" option directly?
Thank you, The CrossBox Team
Nice of them to offer an extension, but it's not needed. Credit/debit suggestion also doesn't apply in my case.
So I finally asked them to give me a their paypal address so I can make a manual payment. Simple right?
Hello,
unfortunately we can't accept any payments outside the payment system that is integrated into the client area.
Do you want us to extend your due date? Have you had any luck contacting PayPal?
Thank you, The CrossBox Team
Hello,
unfortunately we can't receive any payments outside the payment system which is integrated within the client area (due to the accounting reasons).
We offered to extend the due date until you resolve the issue with your PayPal account but looks like you're not interested in that.
We are sorry to see you go and we wish you best of luck in the future.
Thank you, The CrossBox Team
Cmon, we all know that is crock of shit. There's a way to apply the payment manually even with their "accounting reasons". They just don't want to do it.
Migrated my emails off to another platform.
End rant...
Comments
What's with all these non sexual complaints around Dec 25?
Way more than usual. Is this a new way for people to handle their PMS?
Did you try a different browser?
Can't find anything wrong in CrossBox's response.
Why you didn't contacted PayPal when CrossBox advised you to do that?
As CrossBox claimed they did receive payments from other clients, it's look like there's something wrong with your PayPal account.
You may get different result if you at least use your time to contact PayPal instead of opening a complain thread here at LET.
Also, for their safety CrossBox did the right thing by not accepting manual payment
I've been paying other vendors fine (Including them) with the same paypal account. So don't understand how you can come to that conclusion nor crossbox.
Explain, how is it for their safety?
If I want I can look up my previous payments to them and find the address.
Mind you, I've been paying for 5 months...
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Nop, crossbox didn't suggest that.
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It's also a good idea to temporarily disable your adblocker.
Not uncommon. It's happened to me as well.
And that's why they asked you to contact PayPal directly.
It's always a good Idea to use different browsers or clear cache if you encountered with some errors
Sure, but isn't that's crossbox's job (aka customer service) to mention that?
Instead of saying, we've been receiving payments from other clients fine...
A good thing to keep in mind is that just because other's are paying fine, it doesn't mean there isn't any problem with it. You under the full assumption that there is nothing wrong at crossbox's end.
As your post says that CrossBox claim that their system is working fine and receiving payments from other clients, So no it's not their job to contact PayPal from your behalf.
They gave you a proper suggestion to contact PayPal directly from your side so PayPal can identify the issue.
Anyway, Best of luck for your future purchases
Good night
Had you contacted PayPal, they would have probably mentioned it. Why not just contact their support like crossbox asked of you? You are just assuming it’s a waste of time, when in fact, it could have been solved by them. What do you want them to fix on their end when all other payments from other customers are going through to crossbox except you and you alone, and when you don’t want to cooperate with them at all? They were generous enough to even gave you a one week extension to sort things out...
I’ll bet my breakfast and lunch tomorrow, heck even dinner that the letsencrypt one is user error. They showed you the right direction to fix things. If you just show that your letsencrypt SSL isn’t working, and expect a full fix because support can read your mind ( they mentioned you didn’t provide them enough info ) and write out a fully dedicated tutorial for you from A to Z, then you are wrong.
This is typically how a marriage breaks down. Neither side listens to another and just assumes that they are cheating on one another.
Only if they talked... as well as listened instead of blindly believing that they are always right and others are wrong.
Thus, the end is nigh.
What else are you expecting from them? Bring them solutions, not problems. Arguing will get you nowhere. I don't see where you showed them your DNS config etc - you simply assumed it is working properly. They simply assumed it is not. So prove it with logs not statements.
Telling them they are doing a shit job was a dumb approach. Of course they closed the ticket, who cares if you don't renew. If they don't like you, they definitely don't want to keep you.
That's what the error says. PayPal specifically says this purchase is not authorized. How in the hell do you expect the vendor to fix this? Remove the auto payment in PayPal that your dumbass probably deleted. Re-add it. If it still doesn't work you need to contact PayPal. I would HOPE PayPal wouldn't let a random vendor access your account permission problems. What are you expecting here? Why didn't you just contact PayPal?
It's your job to keep your payment accounts in good working order. Be thankful they didn't cancel your service and ban you for non payment.
If you are responding to letsencrypt challenges directly, you generally can't do it behind a proxy server because the protocol terminates at the proxy server not your server
Actually no, you completely missed the point of the thread.
Once again, saying "all other customers are fine" does not equate to there isn't a problem.
And to top it off, it's what an amateur company would have answered.
A simple, "have you tried clearing the browser cache" would have been more appreciate before telling the customer "call paypal" and deny all responsibility.
Brushing the responsibility off is not customer service.
Haha, sure it could've been a user error, who knows. There isn't enough debugging log their portal to say it is or it isn't. But x4b didn't even bother checking. If they pointed out it's a user error fine. Nop, no vendor side checking involved.
Once again, you simply failed to see the issue.
Alright, so let's say that you are absolutely 110% right. Not that I believe you, but let's just say that.
What do you expect us to do? You are right anyway, so what can we do? Just do your magic.
I'm not responding to letsencrypt on my end. x4b have their internal letsencrypt system in their portal to handle that.
https://www.x4b.net/kb/DashboardPages/SSL
The customer have zero information on what's going on in their portal in regards to the SSL. That is the issue that I tried to bring up to the "lead engineer" before he claimed my response as "abusive"
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What do I expect from them? Help the customer troubleshoot?
Yea, that doesn't sound like a reasonable thing to do right?
This isn't a free service like cloudflare. I was a paying customer.
It's not an assumption, it is working.
Haha, there is no payee API. Which the error indicate it's a API issue. So I'm going to call paypal and ask them why I'm getting API error as a payee? I'm 99% sure paypal will tell me to ask the vendor for support. LAWLS.
Sure, you have reasonable suggestions. But did crossbox suggest them to me?
NOP
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Ahaha, you wouldn’t follow their direction even if they ask you to clear browser cache because you didn’t even bother contacting PayPal when they asked you to. Considering your attitude and mentality, the only answer you would have liked to hear was them clearing the browser cache for you? 🤡
X4B did mention what you provided wasn’t enough, and since it is working for all others, asked you to check other things like your DNS configuration. They implied that it was user error. You went on and asked them AGAIN to fix it for you with no additional info to work with ( at this point, all they know is that your letsencrypt ssl isn’t issuing ). If you just show that your letsencrypt SSL isn’t working, and expect a full fix because support can read your mind ( they mentioned you didn’t provide them enough info ) and write out a fully dedicated tutorial for you from A to Z, then you are wrong.
Supports aren’t your slaves, you have to engage and work with them.
Well, clearly you missed the whole point of the thread.
If by saying "others are working fine, there isn't any problem" is the proper response to any technical/billing/customer service issue then life is simple as you make it to be.
It's awesome that you put so much assumption into one. But let me reiterate what happened with x4b.
1) x4b don't have any proper debugging tools in their portal
2) x4b don't have any proper documentation in their knowledgeabse on how to debug
3) x4b didn't even tried to debug.
You can stop with making assumptions, because that's not what happened (what you suggested, "support are my slaves"). If the customer don't have the tools to debug in their portal, they can't debug on their own.
I guess we can now agree that nothing crossbox did was wrong, and you were just arrogant. X4B did try to help you out, but how can they do so with no info? All they can do at that point is provide you with the basic steps on what could be happening, and that’s what they did.
What's the point of this thread anyway?
OP says he is always right, so what's the point?
1) Crossbox didn't do anything right in terms to professional customer service either.
2) If by saying, "we have over 13,000 certificates" is a proper response to a question a customer brought up. Then your standard of tried to debug is pretty low.
When someone is paying for your service, the customer expects it to be working.
Helping a customer who couldn't get your service working is a pretty low standard in terms of customer service.
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1) What? They gave you a week extension, gave you a possible solution to contact PayPal which you didn’t. What more did you want from them when you don’t cooperate?
2) I guess that’s the only part of their response that caught your eye? You just ignored everything else? No additional info given too? Read my latest response carefully and answer it, because I omitted everything about “working for others and not you” to make you happy.
The service would work for an ordinary person, and those with problems can actively communicate with support, listen to what they have to say, and actually do something yourself if they asked you to. You are just lazy, and want people to do all the work for you.
I think someone needs a Christmas hug and a cup of hot cocoa.
Sigh... more assumption you made up.
Perhaps, or just maybe... the support didn't bother helping the customer.
https://prnt.sc/24ulgsg
If you truly believe he actually tried to help instead of brushing it aside as an user error. Then you set your standards really low.
If you also want to make an assumption that I didn't try what support suggested, then LOL
Ok, finally we can really agree that crossbox did nothing wrong, and you were just arrogant.
Yes, I have to assume because you didn’t provide the full context. And we can finally see parts of the actual x4b conversation.
Perhaps the x4b one was poor in terms of support, but they did what they could: check the letsencrypt error message which didn’t contain much info, so asked for you to check your DNS and configurations, which they can not check for you. You asserted that it was absolutely correct, so they are out of ideas. I think for this, I have to add the phrase you hate: because it’s working for everyone else, in most cases, like in most scenario, 99.99% of the time, the problem is likely to be on your end.
LOL, you clearly missed the point of the thread.
Thanks for participating.
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Sorry for the bad support, just wanted to say I have experienced this not only on smaller startups though - and I feel as though this is generally the case when the support is outsourced though this isn't always a concrete statement - wondering if this might be the case in this circumstance
Also, since you seem to not understand how to work with support...
I will leave this here for you as well: How to Contact Support Properly
Cheers!