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WebHostingTalk Censors LET Admin
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WebHostingTalk Censors LET Admin

raindog308raindog308 Administrator

Saw this thread earlier today:

https://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1848550&p=10327924#post10327924

Was amused at the reference to us as "lawless," so I posted the following response, which I thought was pretty fair (and wholly uncritical of WHT):


---Quote (Originally by bear)---
Lawless forums tend to attract the finest members. :rolleyes: :P
---End Quote---
Our rules (see here and here) are about as long as WHT's if not longer, and I believe it's harder to qualify to post an offer (i.e., a sales thread with links to an order page) on LowEndTalk than it is on WHT.

Dodgy hosts don't last long on LowEndTalk because the community is no-nonsense when it comes to anyone who is not completely honorable. Sure, there are hosts that have run into trouble, even gone out of business - that's true on WHT as well - but it's very public when it happens and the community has a long memory. There will always be hosts who post too-good-to-be-true offers (we even joke about it) and there's a "you get what you pay for" tolerance on LET, but we definitely don't allow scams.

While our standards of discussion are different than WHT's, we do have a team of mods that removes posts, dumps threads, and bans posters as the situation warrants.

In short, to call us lawless is incorrect.

---Quote (Originally by ReliableSite)---
Maybe, maybe not. LET is not the forum it was years back, that's for sure.
---End Quote---
That is definitely true. Since 2019, LET has been privately owned and Jon has committed a lot of time and money to make it thrive. As someone who's been there since 2011, I would say the forum is in the best shape it's ever been. After the founder (LEAdmin) sold it to chief, and chief sold it to Colocrossing, LET drifted for a while, but now that it has a private owner whose only mission is to make it grow and prosper, there's been more accomplished in the last 18 months than in the previous 8 years.

Viva LET!


About 5 minutes later the following landed in my inbox:



Dear raindog308,

This is a reminder about your post(s) or other actions at Web Hosting Talk.

This is the reason for this message: POC (This is a simple point of contact. More information follows).

The moderator who issued this reminder has this message for you:

Andrew, we're not going to issue warnings here, but you should know better than to be linking to your site(s). This isn't the place.

The thread is now closed.


I replied...who knows if I'll hear back:


Hello,

I posted a message which you can see below. In response, the post was deleted with the comment that "you should know better than to be linking to your site(s)".

I find it truly bizarre that a WHT moderator can refer to LowEndTalk (which is not "my site" btw) as "lawless" yet when I post a link to our rules, demonstrating that we are not, the response is that I should "know better than to be linking".

Which WHT rule has been violated? The only thing that remotely applies is "You may not post any message that directs others to any pages at your own commercial domain, including informational pages. A commercial domain is defined as a site that receives any type of income or links to any income producing properties."

There are literally thousands of posts that would fulfill this criteria if that's what you're referring to. Every time someone posts a link to a news site they would be breaking this rule. And more to the point, a subsequent rule states:

"You may only discuss details about your company and/or product offerings when the thread starter or poster has made direct reference to your company and stated something untrue or misleading, or something which clearly needs clarifying. The response must be in direct reference to the point discussed only and contain no added promotional information and/or fluff."

Wouldn't what I posted be a very clear fulfillment of this rule?

Who indeed is lawless here?


My reaction to these events is more or less this:

image

For LET support, please visit the support desk.

LowEndTalk attracts the finest members. - bear, WebHostingTalk

«13456

Comments

  • AndrewsAndrews Member
    edited September 16

    @raindog308 said:
    Our rules (see here and here) are about as long as WHT's if not longer, and I believe it's harder to qualify to post an offer (i.e., a sales thread with links to an order page) on LowEndTalk than it is on WHT.

    I would not exagerate about LET rules, as case of Hostsolutions (and later UNBANNING cociu who scammed 3000 customers, and other previously banned scammers like hostdoc...) clearly showed us that there is no rules on LET

    owner and moderators do what they want to do, even if these written "rules" say other way

    @raindog308 said:
    Dodgy hosts don't last long on LowEndTalk because...

    as above, case of UNBANNED Hostsolustions, hostdoc .etc known scammers prove otherwise

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator

    @Andrews said: that there is no rules on LET

    HostSolutions did not actually violate any rules. Their provider tag was removed pretty early on once this news broke, removing their ability to post new offers, so you are incorrect.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

    LowEndTalk attracts the finest members. - bear, WebHostingTalk

  • acidpukeacidpuke Member
    edited September 16

    I don't care for the moderation at WHT its slanted toward there paid members. Its a clicky group. If your not in the circle no consideration. If they blew away in the wind I could care less.

    At least at LET people can speak there mind here and have spirited conversations. If something isn't right the community straightens it out, without heavy moderation.

    I think the moderators do a great job here, that's why i visit.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator

    @acidpuke said: spirited conversations

    Or as I put it in the videos, "our famously spirited discussion" LOL

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

    LowEndTalk attracts the finest members. - bear, WebHostingTalk

  • FAT32FAT32 Administrator, Deal Compiler Extraordinaire

    LOL You will be surprised to see there are hosts that used nulled license on WHT... talking about rules

    Is LET still a community it used to be?

  • @raindog308 said:

    @Andrews said: that there is no rules on LET

    HostSolutions did not actually violate any rules. Their provider tag was removed pretty early on once this news broke, removing their ability to post new offers, so you are incorrect.

    scamming 3000 customers did not violate main LET rule ("don't be a dick")?!?!?!

    yes, tag was removed, but problem is that he was UNBANNED later which move caused major indignation in LET community

    Thanked by 2imok AlwaysSkint
  • jarjar Provider
    edited September 17

    When I went to hostingcon and someone mentioned LET as a place to market hosting, I knew that night I'd have to kick out the shady ass WHT hosts that would show up. And I did. They're the worst hosts that circle there. Low effort, no energy, can't read rules, prone to deadpooling because they're the types that think they get business for merely existing.

    Asked a guy in an elevator what his hosting company specialized in, making conversation, he said "hosting." I said "Cool, great talk." Then I drank a lot, because mingling with WHT types is the absolute worst. Pocket protectors and no personality. Glad Chris was there so we could laugh about it all at least.

    "Note that Romania has laws agains all the illegal activities just like US, including copyright. Is not the Dracula's country or no man's land as you thought." - Random email from someone I don't know, about nothing I've done or said

  • @Andrews said:

    @raindog308 said:

    @Andrews said: that there is no rules on LET

    HostSolutions did not actually violate any rules. Their provider tag was removed pretty early on once this news broke, removing their ability to post new offers, so you are incorrect.

    scamming 3000 customers did not violate main LET rule ("don't be a dick")?!?!?!

    yes, tag was removed, but problem is that he was UNBANNED later which move caused major indignation in LET community

    He is not a provider, but he is still a user, and he should have the right to defend himself in case he wishes. But don't worry, cociu has left.

    Fastmako (aff) - another cheap VPS.

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator
    edited September 17

    Wow I can't believe that they actually deleted my post it was super tame. In the case of my post I was only replying to somebody who mentioned me directly and I did not link to lowendtalk in any way.

    This is an excellent reminder as to why I avoid webhostingtalk like the plague that it is.

    Thanked by 1stevewatson301
    Jon Biloh
  • WHT for me is to be avoided at all costs. It's premierely an advertising platform, and then an ad-heavy moderated 'forum'.

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator

    So here was the post made mentioning me specifically that I replied to. See below:

    ---Quote (Originally by ReliableSite)---
    LET is far more active than WHT is and seems to be continuing to grow. Jon has been investing a lot of time and effort into it lately.
    ---End Quote---

    Thank you. I've been really happy with the results at LEB and LET. Since taking over 18 months ago I wanted to give people a reason to visit LEB daily, and I think we are making some progress towards that goal. Having unique, high value content, is definitely part of the "magic." Regarding user levels and activity at LET, they have doubled (posts and impressions) year over year.

    Every forum has its place and audience it serves. No question that traditional forums are slower today than years ago - after all the only thing in life that is guaranteed is change. Reddit and gen-z are in part why this is happening but also, in my opinion, WHT has not gotten the attention is probably needs to prosper (not trying to offend anyone, that's just my opinion).

    I stopped visiting WHT years ago, even before exiting my ownership position in ColoCrossing. There just was not enough reason to invest the time (again, just calling it like I see it). For those who do spend time on WHT, that's good, and I hope you receive some value from it, commercial or otherwise.

    Wishing everyone the best. Thanks all. :)

    And so my post was then deleted and "bear" sent the following message:

    Jon, we're not going to issue warnings here, but you should know better than to be promoting your site(s) like this. This isn't the place.

    I did not link to lowendtalk, I was very polite and respectable in my remarks on WHT. Crazy town.

    Jon Biloh
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator

    So WHT moderator bear smears all LET members, and when LET replies, they remove our responses and let bear’s smear remain. Classy.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

    LowEndTalk attracts the finest members. - bear, WebHostingTalk

  • edited September 17

    Even though I personally don't like some of the things happening on LET (which I have made very clear) - LET is light years ahead of the slowly sinking ship, called WHT.

    The reason why they closed this thread is because they know that it will get flooded by LET users to show support, and that will take away the last 10 users and providers that still frequent the place.

  • Everybody knows that webhostingtalk is full of scammers. The place is run by scammers and owned by scammers.

    The whole thing I think is sick..

    microLXC - Free LXC VPS! | See in my RacknerdTracker.com garden for tracking all products in stock!

  • The worst part of WHT is purely the format of it. Forums designed to be categorized as such are a dying breed. Just put everything in one place like a timeline.

  • jarjar Provider
    edited September 17

    I actually assumed bear was cool these days. I know how much shit you have to put up with running these places, I figured if he was still doing it he'd have leveled out. But this one was actually a new low.

    He gets his shot in and don't you dare politely defend yourself. Guess he can't handle it. Been there, but I never spent that many years doing it.

    Bet he's super mad he can't delete this thread.

    "Note that Romania has laws agains all the illegal activities just like US, including copyright. Is not the Dracula's country or no man's land as you thought." - Random email from someone I don't know, about nothing I've done or said

  • Hell I've been banned from WHT for about 6 years because I had the balls to call bear out on his hypocrisy and lack of proper rule enforcement (letting paid members get away with things that free users would be banned for)

  • Bear is an absolute wanker. 100% in love with himself.

    Thanked by 1stevewatson301

    microLXC - Free LXC VPS! | See in my RacknerdTracker.com garden for tracking all products in stock!

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator

    @SirFoxy said:
    The worst part of WHT is purely the format of it. Forums designed to be categorized as such are a dying breed. Just put everything in one place like a timeline.

    Couldn't agree more.

    Jon Biloh
  • jarjar Provider

    Honestly though LET has always been a threat to WHT. WHT has been and remains to be the old guard in the industry. Retired telecom guys and former enterprise IT nerds. The type who spent at least 20 years in a cubicle and always tuck in their shirt.

    In comes LET and challenges the whole space. Barely graduated from high school with a credit card, young people building their own side of the industry that's lean, cheap, and threatens their boys club.

    We're the cowboys, they're the politicians. We're the skaters, they're the free masons. We're relevant, they're a dying breed. They know it.

    "Note that Romania has laws agains all the illegal activities just like US, including copyright. Is not the Dracula's country or no man's land as you thought." - Random email from someone I don't know, about nothing I've done or said

  • But most importantly, have you checked the offers thread?

    I repeat, RAID is not backup | Looking for a developer for your next project? - Hire me

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator

    @jar said:
    Honestly though LET has always been a threat to WHT. WHT has been and remains to be the old guard in the industry. Retired telecom guys and former enterprise IT nerds. The type who spent at least 20 years in a cubicle and always tuck in their shirt.

    In comes LET and challenges the whole space. Barely graduated from high school with a credit card, young people building their own side of the industry that's lean, cheap, and threatens their boys club.

    We're the cowboys, they're the politicians. We're the skaters, they're the free masons. We're relevant, they're a dying breed. They know it.

    Good to be amongst the cool people :).

    Jon Biloh
  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator
    edited September 17

    So whoever this Andy fellow is over at WHT has explained to me that because "bear" is an administrator he is entitled to his opinion and can smear our entire community, and that he is better informed than most. Brutal.

    Andy goes on to mutter that I am forbidden from replying to a thread that specifically mentions me personally and LowEndTalk.

    This is where I say LOL.

    Jon,

    "I specifically addressed a post mentioning me. I then offered context directly about the conversation happening inside the thread. I did not promote anything."

    You went beyond the scope of what was allowed.

    "Your administrator smears an entire community and that's OK."

    Administrator or not, we're all entitled to an opinion. Perhaps, as an administrator, it is a better informed opinion than most.

    "I reply specifically to someone who mentions me with a polite and professional remark and it's deleted."

    Your three paragraphs were in no way just "a remark".

    All the best.

    Regards,

    Andy aka 'Postbox'
    Community Leader

    Jon Biloh
  • acidpukeacidpuke Member
    edited September 17

    Your not going to win over there, logic does not prevail.

    Based on there response to you it sure appears they think you as a competitor or enemy.

    Thanked by 1stevewatson301
  • I imagine the admins and mods over there are greybeards still living in their parents basement.

    microLXC - Free LXC VPS! | See in my RacknerdTracker.com garden for tracking all products in stock!

  • MrRadicMrRadic Member, Provider

    @jar said:
    Honestly though LET has always been a threat to WHT. WHT has been and remains to be the old guard in the industry. Retired telecom guys and former enterprise IT nerds. The type who spent at least 20 years in a cubicle and always tuck in their shirt.

    In comes LET and challenges the whole space. Barely graduated from high school with a credit card, young people building their own side of the industry that's lean, cheap, and threatens their boys club.

    We're the cowboys, they're the politicians. We're the skaters, they're the free masons. We're relevant, they're a dying breed. They know it.

    I wouldn't take it this far. Let's see it for what it is:

    WHT is a mature forum, lots of content, great roots. It was bought out to be monetized to the max and run in a "look ma, we're big boys" kind of fashion.

    LET caters to the hosts that WHT used to cater to in the 2000s. Not that this is a bad thing, but WHT was great in its early days.

    Thanked by 1typicalGtaTG

    Servers UNDER $50 that aren't from 1999: ReliableSite Clearance Specials

  • MannDudeMannDude Member, Provider

    Whats your budget?

    Thanked by 1LeonDynamic

    [ IncogNet LLC ] [ CloudLinux Shared | KVM VPS ] [ No Personal Details Required, Crypto Accepted ]

    AMD Ryzen and NVMe powered KVM Servers in the Netherlands and Finland.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator

    @acidpuke said: Based on there response to you it sure appears they think you as a competitor or enemy.

    BTW, over the years I've submitted many different tickets over there about 0-day vBulletin vulnerabilities, scams and problems they may want to be aware of, etc.

    They've never done anything remotely like that here - and that's fine, they're under no obligation to, but this North Korean "OMG someone mentioned South Korea, the Dear Leader will be mad and we must immediately censor it!" attitude is rather pathetic.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

    LowEndTalk attracts the finest members. - bear, WebHostingTalk

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator

    @Andrews said: as above, case of UNBANNED Hostsolustions

    BTW, the unbanning of @cociu was in response to numerous community requests to do so. People wanted him to be able to reply to threads and update on what was going on, which he subsequently did.

    Thanked by 2FrankZ AlwaysSkint

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

    LowEndTalk attracts the finest members. - bear, WebHostingTalk

  • MannDudeMannDude Member, Provider
    edited September 17

    On a serious note, WHT is hardly a community anymore. It's only useful purpose is to generate leads for sales and that is it.

    Post a question in a forum or sub forum. Wait to see how long it takes for a response. It might be days, if you're lucky. Post the same question here and take note of not just the quality of response but also the subsequent conversation that forms.

    Treat WHT like a business and not an open community designed for engagement and your expectations will be lowered and you'll be happier. It's a tool for sales and leads and that is really about it nowadays. I've been a member since 2002, almost 20 years, a lot of the quality members that used to frequent the place are gone. MIA. Now it's the same half dozen or so in most threads and a couple I assume get paid to post based on their titles.

    WHT is the business convention, tuck in your shirt and smile. LET is the meeting at the bar where you can play some darts and be real.

    [ IncogNet LLC ] [ CloudLinux Shared | KVM VPS ] [ No Personal Details Required, Crypto Accepted ]

    AMD Ryzen and NVMe powered KVM Servers in the Netherlands and Finland.

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