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Microsoft can't figure out how to accept reports of facepalm worthy failure
So I posted this to their reddit, which their support actually moderates:
My only hope is that by posting this here, someone passively sees this information who can use it. Since there is no way that I am aware of to directly reach anyone who even knows how to care about such an issue.
Presently emails at least coming from the 40.92.0.0/15 range seem to be lacking reverse DNS records, which could cause delivery issues to other service providers when emails are sent from Outlook/Hotmail/O365. While I have a wealth of logs around it, I'd like to zero in on two to make the case simple and clean:
H=(AUS01-ME3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) [40.92.63.26]
H=(AUS01-ME3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) [40.92.63.52]
The hostname given by Microsoft on their outbound connection, AUS01-ME3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com, points to 104.47.71.232 and 2a01:111:f400:7004::200. The IP addresses above have no reverse DNS records:
[root@gateway] ~ # host 40.92.63.26
Host 26.63.92.40.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)[root@gateway] ~ # host 40.92.63.52
Host 52.63.92.40.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)This is a very significant oversight, and has potentially even triggered a significant number of blacklistings for their IPs. This has included my own RBL where I have added many of the IPs under the assumption that someone had figured out a way to use SMTP from Azure IPs, as I assumed there was simply no way that Microsoft would have forgotten reverse DNS for Hotmail. But upon closer inspection, these are allowed by their SPF and I have headers from a sender who used Outlook and had their emails sent from one of these IPs under the same conditions.
This is not a support request, this is a friendly notification that a system is unquestionably and objectively broken.
They removed the post as a support request: https://www.reddit.com/r/microsoft/comments/nwsb9r/hotmailoutlook_missing_reverse_dns_records/
They've been engaging with me via private message, and the conversation has been nothing short of hilarious:
Them:
Hello! Thanks for reaching out regarding your Outlook emails. We care for you and we want you to be able to use the app to its full potential. Let's work on this together so you can send/receive emails without any hassle. Are you an Admin of Microsoft 365 or Azure? Are you using a Personal or Business account?
Me:
I'm actually a service provider. I run a company similar to Office 365, Gsuite, Fastmail, etc. My customers noticed some problems receiving email from Microsoft and it turns out that the reason was that in my deployment of reasonable safeguards against inbound spam, I had rejected emails from Hotmail due to missing reverse DNS records on Hotmail's IP addresses. It's a really big oversight by your tech team, and they'll definitely want to know.
Them:
Thanks for the additional details. For business users, we recommend that you reach out to our support team using this link: https://msft.it/61695n8ptT. Rest assured, they have additional resources at their disposal that can help them troubleshoot this issue for you. Please be sure to ask for a service request number for your reference. Let us know how it goes. — R.V.
Me:
If a person walks by your office and tells you that there's a giant penis drawn on your sign, do you ask them to open a support ticket as well? Please forward my message to someone competent.
Them:
We understand the urgency of getting this fixed. To make sure that your concern will be handled accordingly, it is recommended that you get in touch with our support team as they have the tools and resources appropriate for your concern. We hope that you consider our suggestion, so this can be handled as soon as possible. -Mia
Me:
I'm not a customer, I'm not opening a ticket. Consider me literally equivalent to someone who drove by your office, saw that your building was falling apart, and walked inside to kindly notify you. You, being bound by procedure, asked me "Do you have an appointment?" Break out from your procedure here. Otherwise it's on you when your paying customers complain and you asked the kind stranger to open a ticket, when he was just walking by and letting you know that something extremely important of yours was very broken. Your techs will agree , they will thank you for sharing this information. If you can't forward a report like this, you are unable to support your employment.
So why am I sharing this? Because I don't consider myself a competitor to them, but a lot of people do. I'm frequently passed over because a small company like mine couldn't possibly provide a level of reliability equal to theirs. Let's forget about more Office 365 outages this year than users banned from Twitter, how good is their service exactly? It's so good that they can't even manage to set PTR records or allow someone to be told that they failed to do it.
Enjoy your comedy, don't forget that Delimiter bought me red bull ( @alexvolk ), and make sure to get a few shots at me in on the way out. Love you all!
Comments
This is where big companies often fall down. You're dealing with someone who is limited to a spellbook of responses and is locked into his process.
To be honest, MS is such a big company that their Reddit moderators have no control over anything else. The Reddit mods responded with opening a support request using a link they sent, which solves the text I quoted. If you haven't, consider opening a support ticket. Then rant if their support is shit (which it is, but it's worth trying if you haven't already).
To be honest, if you insist on ranting to powerless Reddit mods instead of following their instructions, I would consider this to be a PMS.
I probably misunderstood you, correct me.
You did. No worries, I know a few of you have personal problems against me and would take this as an opportunity to take a jab (PMS that's a new one though lol), that's why I went ahead and asked for it.
Support page:
"For Home Users:"
"For Business Users:"
Their support is for customers. I don't even see a reasonable path to "opening a ticket." Live chat for home users isn't better, and business support is a phone number. I'm neither.
Their social media support has an avenue to report this, I'm well aware of it. They need to be social engineered into using it. Publicity is a good start.
How long it been like this for, you would think they would have monitoring system to detect a high increase of rejects as most server reject ips with no rdns.
If it hasn't been an ongoing issue, it at least happened before: https://www.reddit.com/r/microsoft/comments/dzv19b/hotmail_and_outlookcom_missing_reverse_dns/
Guess you'll just need to find a way to reach someone directly on the inside.
I wouldn't post this if it weren't part of my plan
They won't acknowledge it, but someone relevant is/will be reading this here.
Do you have a screenshot of your deleted Reddit post? If yes, hook me up with it and I'll pass it on, with hopes that I don't get chucked away to go by the support process.
Aye and thank you kindly
https://files.freesocial.co/f.php?h=0pqJ02CY&p=1
No promises that I'll be able to go far, but no harm in trying at least.
Hello! Thanks for reaching out to LowEndTalk regarding your Outlook emails. We care about you and want to be able to resolve this so that you can use this website to it's full potential. It is recommended that you reach out to our LowEndSupport team by following this link: https://support.lowendtalk.com/ . Please be sure to ask for a service request number for your reference. Let us know how it goes.
PMS = Penis on Microsoft Server
Yeah that's a really fucked up situation then. Good luck, that's a very screwed up thing for the Reddit people to recommend you to do something that you can't do.
It's true that is where I store my dick pics.
JarLard is so smart.
I hope you don't mean me
I am done with it.
back to the issue at hand, this is the effect of treating employees on an execution job as automatons which HAVE TO follow the script. "The Procedure" trumps everything else.
example:
I went to a different mobile phone company after the previous one literally stole my money. It is another story, but funny too.
Anyway, they asked me for last invoice and the proof I have paid it (that requirement has been removed later as some companies used this to keep customers captive or at least take more money off them through various tricks).
Since I was always paying a lump sum as I never want to worry about interrupted service, the invoice showed credit (negative amount to be paid).
Them:
You need to bring us the proof of payment in original and copy.
Me:
The amount is negative, so I don't have to.
Them:
The necessary documents are on the website and here, please see the proof of payment is required.
Me:
What payment since I don't owe anything? They owe me!
Them:
You need to make the proof you have no debt to the previous company before we can start the procedure.
Me:
The invoice is proof, it shows a negative amount.
Them:
Yes, but the proof of payment is required.
Me:
Alright, then you need to show me a way to pay a negative amount.
Them:
You can give us an excerpt from your bank statement.
Me:
Which will show a negative payment to them?
Them:
Yes.
I gave up on them and went to another, much smaller, company which needed customers, not procedures.
as a penis this post offends me
whoosh
They wanted proof of the payment that made it negative. You're the one being obtuse, here.
Not the same situation.
In the movie version of this, jar gets a botnet to open 20,000 support tickets with Microsoft, thereby gaming their top issue board and the problem gets resolved in 15 minutes.
Jar returns to Reddit to thank them for their suggestion to open a support ticket to get it resolved.
Nope, the list with the documents needed specified the proof of payment for the last invoice. They asked to show them the proof I have paid it. I asked specifically whether they want to show them the negative payment and they said yes.
Besides, I am obtuse? When the invoice clearly shows I have no debt, it is not their business how I got to have no debt, anyway. They trust the invoice to show the amount I would have owed normally, should trust it to show the amount I am not owing also.
I haven't thought of going to the old company and ask them to refund me the credit, but I was still their customer until the procedure to move the number was completed, so I am not sure it would have worked, even like that.
As I was the IT Manager of a medium company at that time, I have asked the account manager to do me a favour and start the procedure for my personal account and she obliged. It wasn't her duty, but this is how you keep customers happy, going the extra mile, not asking for a "required" paper even in a situation when it cannot be provided.
You just posted an above conversation saying they wanted proof of payment. The document only showed negative balance and not the sending payment. Hence, further asking for proof of the payment, which is on the payment sending side (they explicitly told you your bank statement for example!), not payment receiving side, which you kept harping on.
For the last invoice. That is specified in the papers required list. The last invoice was not even issued at the time of the payment and it clearly shows a negative amount "to be paid".
By that logic I could show any bank transfer made previously even when I had an outstanding invoice, that would have not been a proof of payment for that invoice, right?
P.S. Are you sure you do not work for Vodafone?
Does reading Lowendtalk even come into their PR/social media strategy? Lowendtalk is a relatively niche forum, and I doubt many Office 365 admins use this forum.
If you want some real visibility you might want to create a blog post with the title, "How Microsoft fails its customers" and try your luck sharing it on Hacker News, now that would definitely generate some attention.
Oh don’t worry, they’ll see it.
and don't forget to post the service request number here to get your dick pic count doubled by racknerd for free.
Sorry I had to.
That is the only smart reaction when dealing with that kind of companies -> Go to another, much smaller, company which needs customers, not procedures.
@jar
Why do you even care, let alone make that effort? Simply block emails coming from them. Maybe some day enough derps MS email customers are p_ssed off enough to tell them to do their job properly or, even better, to leave (but don't hold your breath. Those people seem to have traded brain cells for a very high pain threshold...).
Because customers ends up complaining about emails that they didn't receive, and when you present them with the facts they just like to believe that a big corp can never make any mistakes and so it must be the smaller player who's at fault.
He has no choice but to deal with this shit, MS mail is still big and customers not getting it will not get the explanation either, most of the time.
Big companies usually don't care for small ones. When our customers complain to MS about them randomly blocking mail from our very clean ranges, MS offers their mail service, so, every failure of theirs is supposed to generate more sales.
It's all just business ❤️
I need things from other companies sometimes to reduce support requests on my own. I have unique ways of getting what I need.
Seriously though customers are fun. If Gmail goes down I'm getting at least one cancellation for failure to operate with Gmail. My revenue isn't very dependent on customers being logical.