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Difficult for Someone in USA to own Eastern European Host?
Offshore_Solutions
Member
Only curious if those in Eastern Europe can give insight on the legalities & difficulties of trying to own & manage an Eastern European Host/server farm from North America?
I will never attempt this but several years ago I had wanted to try running a hosting company/ server farm from Transnistria.
Logistics proved too difficult but if it had gone differently, would a foreign owner be able to hire a good manager in Transnistria or would they be seen as the "enemy" even if they had pro-soviet proclivities?
I realize Transnistria basically thinks of itself as part of the Soviet Union but my research shows that the average salary is around 180 Euros/month which means it's affordable to hire several employees there. Would the employees appreciate the jobs or would they resent/not work as hard for a non-Russian foreigner who can't always have eyes on the ground?
Would you guess the Transnistrian government might require a mirror of the servers for surveillance purposes like occurs in Romania? Is there too much red tape that Eastern European countries make you complete & are bribes expected/required to deal with bureaucrats?
Comments
I can't speak for Transnistria as such, but as a Norwegian who moved to Romania a few years ago I would strongly advise against it.
First of all, if you don't speak the language you will be screwed over, time and time again. Also, most public information is only available in the local language and few officials speak English to any extent.
In addition to that not a lot of forms can be filled online, you have to personally meet up at an overcrowded office with slow miserable workers, which seem to have only one purpose in life - to make your day go to shits.
And as for the salaries in Romania, in IT they are actually almost on the same level as western/northern Europe. I work in a multi-national and earn roughly the same as I did back in Norway. The median salary however is, like you said, quite low here also.
I assume they would request the same level of surveillance, as this is quite common around these parts. But also, nothing a little bit of money in the pockets of some midlevel official can't fix.
You will get ripped off, one way or another. You are the Western foreigner in the East, culture alone dictates that you have to get ripped off.
You think too far already. First you should think that Transnistria is not a country, by US definition it is occupied Moldovan territory - Simply investing there could be very well sanctioned by the State Department like Crimea and land you in jail.
Yikes, you're right! It may be illegal for Americans to invest in Transnistria due to sanctions.
A second risk, if the Russian government ever became soft post-Putin (stopped sending financial aid & removed their base) Moldova would capture Transnistria and confiscate what they viewed as illegal foreign investments! 🤔
@William & @daffy, you know Eastern Europe better than most. What stable locations there would you view as best for webhosting business investment with less hassle? Maybe parts of the Ukraine like Lugansk where bulletproof hosts can operate with impunity?
It's not as simple as that. Like here in Ex-Yugoslavia it is not just black and white - It could simply integrate itself to Moldova (which is likely, because the EU would pay for that process, and the Russians there would get concessions) or it could end in a bloody war like Armenia/Azerbaijan. At least Moldova/Transnistria is the same (or very similar, Romanian and Russian orthodox) religion, which makes things easier.
Moldova would not take private investments, that is more the case if Russia annexes something. Different goals by design, Russia is expanding (not in the Soviet sense though) for Russia(ns), the EU/Moldova is expanding for unified Europe. I don't believe in either of this ideas too much.
The center of Moscow. Any datacenter. Even a Western owned one. In the East connections back you up, not money, nor if what you do is legal (and even if it is, or isnt, that can very well change with a single signature any day, any time).
Being in Ural or Siberia will not stop Moscow anyway. Neither will being in Luhansk or the Donbass save you from Kiev. Same as being in the most remote of Alaska will not stop the FBI.
Bandwidth would be expensive but have you thought about Kosovo, Caucasus autonomous regions such as Nakhchivann or central Asia Kyrgyzstan/Uzbekistan. (I know a guy in Kyrgyzstan that will host anything as long as it isn't illegal within Kyrgyz laws)
Would be much easier to give the necessary bribes if you were on the ground though.
Thanks for the idea of the Caucasus! Are you allowed to share the URL of the host in Kyrgyzstan or private message it?
I have never had an issue.. if the host lets you pay for it, you are set. Bitcoin goes a long way.
Maybe @cociu has an opinion on this.
I actually have worked in eastern Europe and had no problems, quite the contrary - but I was connected. But of course I'm a European; Americans likely will meet much more resistance, often "hidden" and quiet btw.
A piece of advice: Do not care about "country X is USA-friendly"; that's often just the government. Always try to find out how the normal people feel about it.
Anything is illegal by Kyrgyz law. Same as any HTTPS connection in Kazahkzstan has to use a gov SSL cert. Don't listen to such people.
Bandwidth is not expensive in Kosovo. It is cheap. There is more government and laws than in Bosnia, but it does not control vast parts of the country - Serbia does. Kosovo is a nightmare as you have to align with the goals of BOTH occupying parties (Albania and Serbia), which are very different cultures/laws and at war by blood.
Bosnia is the wild west - no law, but you can back yourself up with force. Nobody will come to help you. In Kosovo you piss off 2 Albanians, they hit a Serbian car and next thing you know 150 angry Serbs with AKs are now integrating your city into the Serbian controlled part, and no one will stop them.
Investing in illegal occupied territory. Jail for US citizens.
Just go with Moldova and a trusted provider. They provide nice discounts after about 42U's
MAKE SURE YOU DON'T HOST ANYTHING POLITICS-RELATED!!!
Yes this is exactly what I figured. For a European who can speak the local language & visit the office more often, this idea would be good.
America has lost respect in so many parts of the world there would be a lack of trust leading to the biggest risk:
Unless your Manager has extraordinary character, he will simply learn everything and setup his own shop & take your clients. You would invest so much only to have it all taken. Heck, that can even happen with the owner in the same country, speaking the same language.
What have you experienced the annual bribe amounts that are needed to get through the red tape of the local government in a place like Moldova/Romania/Ukraine?
Doesn't make much sense to answer that as it very much depends on diverse factors like the country, the region, major city or not, political structure.
Example: In certain countries you will want to bribe (e.g. via ordering "consulting services") the highest up possible while in other countries one rather needs to bribe the lower local levels.
Also note that by no means bribing is needed in all eastern european countries.
Between zero to 100k€. With high enough connections there is no need to pay anything.
Inside EU you might land in jail for trying to bribe also. As non resident you could get a permanent entry ban, or if you fuck up hard enough/piss someone very much off get a red notice and get arrested when you try to enter Mexico or Canada, even by land.
Bribing foreign countries is apparently not illegal for US citizens/companies and tax deductible - but you can't lie about it. You have to keep records and fill IRS forms.
If you can't fix a problem in these countries with money - you can fix it with more money.
But in order for that to be true - you need to be from that same country. Otherwise you have to go through all the rules and regulations, which are basically non-existent, and are not made to make your life easier, but to get hush money out easily. So if the rules are meant to be broken to actually work, and they won't do that for you, cause you're a foreigner - then it will definitely be close to impossible to do business there.
This.
Just today at the bank they wouldn't approve my loan since I was a foreign citizen and not fluent in the language to understand every single piece of paper.
10€ later and it was fixed, automagically. Go figure...
Enough money buys everything. The Colombians lost some cocaine in Africa once, someone flew down in a private jet with millions in cash to buy it back - End of the story, now all rich Colombian dealers live in that country. They also realised corruption is one thing, no government is entirely different.
It's Guinea btw. Not even something like the CAR.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-52569130
I know he is hosting peoples sites that have extreme political views (far right and left). I had a server there for a while (not for anything questionable just a curiosity and cheap) but it was 100ms+ away from almost any major pop.
Didn't Kazakhstan end up giving up on that quickly when they realized it was entirely unsustainable?
Some of these places like Nakhichevan are legal self governing territories now such as Jersey + Guernsey are to the UK so I highly doubt it would be illegal.
I think HSBC bank got their asses handed to them years ago by US gov for their involvement in bribes, etc.
No, this was money laundry. Always. Bribing is not illegal for US companies/citizens. HSBC is also not a US bank, bribing foreign governments as NON US entity is VERY MUCH illegal in the US. Go figure why.
Are you sure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act
The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977 (FCPA) is a United States federal law that prohibits U.S. citizens and entities from bribing foreign government officials to benefit their business interests.
Exception:
However, any payment that does not affect the decision of the foreign official is not considered a bribe. For example, a businessman in the States may make a payment to a government official to expedite a deal or transaction. Such a payment is considered a grease payment (and not a bribe), which is lawful under FCPA.
It will be hard to prove what is a 'bribe' under this terms as the person receiving it will not be much interested in cooperating with US authorities. So yes, for all relevant matters it is apparently legal.
For me in Croatia it is illegal to bribe local and EU officials (incl all EU and EFTA countries), but not others (eg. Serbia or now UK). it is not tax deductible and i can't use company money for it (so i have to pay myself as salary, pay income tax on it, then use that).
The Feds got wise to the old "consulting fee" routine a long time ago. FCPA prosecutions don't require foreign officials to sign affidavits that they got a bribe.
From my understanding, the FCPA in practice is one of those things that is more of a practical barrier - i.e., how are you going to account for $XXX,XXX or more during your annual audit, how many people do you need to get into the conspiracy (an additional criminal charge) to cook the books to hide it, etc.
Conceptually, saying "we'll just say it's $1m consulting fee" or "we placed a special order for $1m in software to El Presidente's side company" sounds easy or but auditors are not stupid...particularly when big accounting companies audit a hundred companies that do business in Crapistan and they all seem to be buying priceless napkin sketches done by the Minister for Economics' son. It's one of those risk/reward things that discourages.
IIRC, it has to be a fee that's available to everyone to pay and the same fee - I forget the details but there are rules around this.
The FCPA is a big deal for large multinationals. If you work for one in the US, I can almost guarantee that you'll be required to take a course on it at some point or it will be part of a larger course. Considering how deeply ingrained bribery is in some countries, the FCPA is a bunch of virtue-shouting nonsense and bad law, but that's the government for you.
I'm skeptical the feds would spend time on something as dinky as a hosting company discussed on LET. I mean, how much are you really going to bribe someone? $100?
The highest i ever paid was below 50kEUR, i doubt anyone cares at that levels.