Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


Your hardware - and Ryzen 4750G "report"
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

Your hardware - and Ryzen 4750G "report"

jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
edited March 2021 in General

Front up: this isn't meant as the typical p_ssing contest or mere "CPU X, X GB RAM,SSD XYZ" one or two liner but rather for reporting about new and/or interesting hardware along with the reasoning why a particular hardware has been chosen.

I'll go ahead with my report.

For the past 3 to 4 years my workstation had a Ryzen 1700 (without 'X'), nice fast ("3 GHz") but not extreme/high end memory, an Nvidia 1030, a Samsung 9xx NVMe and some relatively nice but not high end SSDs, incl. a Samsung 8xx QVO.

Now I have a Ryzen 4750G based work station (more a bit later).

My guidelines and priorities were and are generously enough cores but not as many as possible, being at the price vs performance sweet spot, and also being conscious about power consumption.

Back then the Ryzen 1700 met all criteria. 8 cores at 65W TDP and not the top but a high performance at a reasonable price (especially compared to intel CPUs). For memory I went for DDR4 3000, 15,15,15,35 (it happened to be G.Skill but I have no particular brand preferences) which was just at the sweet price spot; very nice performance and anything even faster would have come at a hefty premium.
My graphics card decision was simple: passively cooled and the lowest available power consumption. I'm not a gamer and if I occasionally game then usually with older games, so performance is not an issue, at all, as long as the graphics device is good enough to play 2.5K x 1440 videos (both yt and vlc).
I came to strongly dislike the Nvidea card though because from time to time it willy-nilly smeared the screen and because the binary driver was a pig to install and get to run, and the foss driver is ridiculously slow and poor (might have changed meanwhile, Idk because I don't care about graphics).

In fact, my dislike both re. the Nvidia card and the fact that I needed a card which also meant that a micro case wouldn't do and the whole box got bigger, was the main driver to think about upgrading to a AMD APU (as opposed to CPU).
As I already have a 3000 series APU (4 cores) as secondary machine and like it a lot looking at a new 4000 series APU seemed to be the way to go.

But oh well, the IT industry wouldn't be the IT industry if one could simply exchange the processor ...
My old main board (Asus - I like them a lot and only have good experience with them) had a 370X chip set which doesn't support the 4000 series, so I had to get a new main board too; this time I got an MSI (Tomahawk) main board as MSI seems to be kind of a semi official AMD preferred partner. I'm not unhappy with the main board, it works fine and has all the bells and whistles of a 550B main board but I won't buy another MSI main board anyway, mainly because they seem to be very gamer focused and I miss the BIOS and its look from Asus.

As a developer I need a seriously fast drive so I also looked for one. I ended up with the Cardea PCIe4 1 TB NVMe and am quite happy with it. It's bloody fast. Plus I got a "brother" (860 EVO) for my Samsung 1 TB QVO SSD. Lesson learned: stay away from QLC SSDs (and NVMes) and stay with TLC (or if you can afford it MLC or even SLC). From what I've seen so far TLC is faster and more reliable/higher life time.

Now to the core part, the 4750G APU. What a lovely and bloody fast processor! Its performance is roughly that of a 3700 and its built in GPU is way faster than I need. From what I hear it's even good enough for many modern games in 1920x1080. And I've got rid of that damn Nvidia sh_t thing and trouble maker, YAY!
Of course I also benchmarked it right away using my vpsbench with hardcore settings and the result is "about 50% faster than my old Ryzen 1700", which btw also matches what passmark says.

TL;DR They are hard to get but if you can get hold of a Ryzen 4000G series APU, absolutely go for it! Highly recommended. I really love my new 4750G system.

What did you get in terms of CPU/APU, memory, disks etc - and why?

Thanked by 2seriesn salakis

Comments

  • You should share a picture of that beast!

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @seriesn said:
    You should share a picture of that beast!

    Meee, opening the (rather large) case again? And one wouldn't see the APU anyway because of course there is a cooler on top (Arctic freezer something (37?). Short: boring but damn good enough (TM)) and the Tomahawk main board just looks like a Tomahawk main board (and there are plenty and way better pics than I could ever make all over the internet anyway).
    Btw. there is no RGB light effects nor a transparent side panel as I'm judging hardware only based on tech. factors and not only don't care about but in fact dislike the RGB light effects nonsense.

    What are you working with, what's on (or under) your desktop? And why?

    (Side note: one of the main reasons for this thread is the fact that the 4750G (still?) is relatively rare and quite new so I thought some of you might be interested in such a box)

  • @jsg said: What are you working with, what's on (or under) your desktop? And why?

    I should seriously upgrade my "home" office setup. My main system is still powered by almost 10 year old Dell-Latitude-E6520. Only thing I replaced was the HDD with an SSD, connected to a 32 inch TV and 2nd 21inch monitor.

    I am seriously jealous. But I love this laptop/desktop/hybrid :(

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @seriesn said:

    @jsg said: What are you working with, what's on (or under) your desktop? And why?

    I should seriously upgrade my "home" office setup. My main system is still powered by almost 10 year old Dell-Latitude-E6520. Only thing I replaced was the HDD with an SSD, connected to a 32 inch TV and 2nd 21inch monitor.

    I am seriously jealous. But I love this laptop/desktop/hybrid :(

    I can understand you, I also still have an old Dell laptop with an old 3xxx intel quad core as my main notebook. Sturdy reliable quality and still damn good enough(TM).

    I might have an idea that should please you: the Ryzen 4000G have been meant for notebooks too anyway (maybe even mainly), of course with significantly lower clock speed but still seriously fast, especially for a notebook. A quad core 4000 based notebook might be just the right thing for you. Some are already available so you might want to look whether and what Dell has in its notebook segment ...

  • Ian_Dot_TechIan_Dot_Tech Member, Patron Provider

    My home setup while outdated works well for me and I actually still suggest it for people wanting a decent computer for the cost.
    I initially went with this build as my company got a pallet of 50 of them in (we sell surplus electronics). So we used some for an upgrade to our office PC's however I have since fallen in love with how good they work.
    Brand: Lenovo
    Model: S30
    CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1660 6 core 12 thread (I upgraded it from 1609 it shipped with)
    GPU: AMD Vega 64 powering 3 monitors (runs games great)! Also installed this after I got the workstation.
    RAM: This system has 8 DIMM Slots and runs registered server RAM, I have it running 32GB RAM currently.
    Drives: 500GB Boot SSD and 1TB Game SSD
    The only downside I have with this build is it's too old for native NVME support, so I am using SATA drives.

    Overall for the cost, this build works well I can play any triple-A game and have tons of resources left. I hope that it will get me a few more good years before I have to think about getting a new one.

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • I just finished my build a few weeks ago. But mainly to game with a few co-workers of mine. We were waiting for PS5 but since it's currently priced at €1100 here I said hell no and opted for PC anyway (so did they a few days later lol)

    Anyway here's the specs:

    AMD Ryzen 7 3700x (stock cooler, need to change it since temps are going way up)
    16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200mhz (can't remember the timings right now)
    A-Data 500GB nvme (no idea if it's TCL or what ever)
    and...since the GPU market is as it is and my funds were limited
    AMD RX-580 8GB

    The Gigabyte motherboard I got supposedly supports the 5xxx series but I don't see any benefits to it right now for my use case.

    Other than gaming the occasional web work I do doesn't benefit what so ever from the new build against the old AMD FX build I had so yeah, mainly gaming lol.

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • Ian_Dot_TechIan_Dot_Tech Member, Patron Provider

    @serv_ee said:
    I just finished my build a few weeks ago. But mainly to game with a few co-workers of mine. We were waiting for PS5 but since it's currently priced at €1100 here I said hell no and opted for PC anyway (so did they a few days later lol)

    Anyway here's the specs:

    AMD Ryzen 7 3700x (stock cooler, need to change it since temps are going way up)
    16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200mhz (can't remember the timings right now)
    A-Data 500GB nvme (no idea if it's TCL or what ever)
    and...since the GPU market is as it is and my funds were limited
    AMD RX-580 8GB

    The Gigabyte motherboard I got supposedly supports the 5xxx series but I don't see any benefits to it right now for my use case.

    Other than gaming the occasional web work I do doesn't benefit what so ever from the new build against the old AMD FX build I had so yeah, mainly gaming lol.

    How does the RX-580 handle these days in gaming?

  • @Ian_Dot_Tech said:

    @serv_ee said:
    I just finished my build a few weeks ago. But mainly to game with a few co-workers of mine. We were waiting for PS5 but since it's currently priced at €1100 here I said hell no and opted for PC anyway (so did they a few days later lol)

    Anyway here's the specs:

    AMD Ryzen 7 3700x (stock cooler, need to change it since temps are going way up)
    16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200mhz (can't remember the timings right now)
    A-Data 500GB nvme (no idea if it's TCL or what ever)
    and...since the GPU market is as it is and my funds were limited
    AMD RX-580 8GB

    The Gigabyte motherboard I got supposedly supports the 5xxx series but I don't see any benefits to it right now for my use case.

    Other than gaming the occasional web work I do doesn't benefit what so ever from the new build against the old AMD FX build I had so yeah, mainly gaming lol.

    How does the RX-580 handle these days in gaming?

    A lot better than I initially hoped for actually.

    I mainly do a few games like Warzone, Rainbow Six and some other older titles like CS:GO.

    I limited the frames in warzone to 60 to begin with as Im playing on my "older" 55" TV anyway. In Siege AMD's software shows "average" FPS at 160 something. And well, no need to measure CSGO at all.

    All in all Im quite happy with it. Surely it can't beat the newer cards or barely keeps up with Nvidias 1xxx series but meh.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited March 2021

    Since the 4000Gs are not available for consumers to purchase, I've had to wait for the new 5000 series, which is only going to take longer and cost more given the global semiconductor shortages. Bought several motherboards on sales, but wasn't expecting to wait so long.

    Maybe my wallet will thank me at the end of the year.

    Your workstation should be good for 5+ years before even thinking of needing an upgrade. Diminished returns for PCIe5, DDR5, 128 cores, etc.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @TimboJones said:
    Since the 4000Gs are not available for consumers to purchase, I've had to wait for the new 5000 series, which is only going to take longer and cost more given the global semiconductor shortages. Bought several motherboards on sales, but wasn't expecting to wait so long.

    They are available, but unfortunately quite hard to get and relatively expensive. If you can live with 4 cores the 3000 series APU might be a good option. I'm very happy with mine but I needed 8 cores for my main work station.
    If you don't mind (or even prefer) having a discrete GPU/graphics card you can go with a 3000 CPU; the 5000 series isn't really significantly faster.
    In any case I'd suggest to get a B450 or B550 main board.

    Your workstation should be good for 5+ years before even thinking of needing an upgrade. Diminished returns for PCIe5, DDR5, 128 cores, etc.

    Yep, that's what I think too. As I said my main driver to upgrade wasn't performance but it was to get an APU based system. Otherwise my Ryzen 1700 would go easily for 2 more years (it easily still performs good enough) and I expect my 4750 to serve me well for about 5 years.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • salakissalakis Member
    edited March 2021

    Real LowEndWorkstations use Ivy Bridge (or older) Xeons.

    Mine has a no-name X79 motherboard, Xeon E5-2696v2, 32GB DDR3 ECC RAM and a RX480 8GB. Not exactly the most efficient machine, but the multi-threaded performance is still pretty good. Sure, Ryzen would be neat, but I can't complain so far.

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • @Ian_Dot_Tech said:
    The only downside I have with this build is it's too old for native NVME support, so I am using SATA drives.

    If you have an available PCIe 3.0 x4 slot, you can put an NVMe drive in a $10 adapter.

  • @jsg said:

    @TimboJones said:
    Since the 4000Gs are not available for consumers to purchase, I've had to wait for the new 5000 series, which is only going to take longer and cost more given the global semiconductor shortages. Bought several motherboards on sales, but wasn't expecting to wait so long.

    They are available, but unfortunately quite hard to get and relatively expensive.

    I thought they were only sold to system builders like Dell and Lenovo and not into retail channel for individuals? Did yours come with a cooler or you did you get an after market? Having one included helps with the high price.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited March 2021

    @TimboJones said:
    I thought they were only sold to system builders like Dell and Lenovo and not into retail channel for individuals? Did yours come with a cooler or you did you get an after market? Having one included helps with the high price.

    I got mine "bulk" (just the Ryzen and two stickers in a small transparent plastic package). From what I've learned it seems a few (very few so far) smaller system builders that is, basically companies building PCs from standard parts can/do get more Ryzens than they need and sell them.

    I got mine in Europe and could tell you my source via PM but I don't know such a source in North-America (but presume they exist and are just not easy to find). And of course there are dealers in Asia.
    FWIW I payed about €370 for mine.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • verovero Member, Host Rep

    4750G is a nice CPU - I was keeping an eye on them earlier (in 2020) when they were available on eBay around 300€, but looks like prices went up slightly.

    Every next Ryzen generation past the 2nd (Zen+) has lower memory bandwidth and though it may not be important in real life applications, that's something that bothers me :)

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @vero said:
    4750G is a nice CPU - I was keeping an eye on them earlier (in 2020) when they were available on eBay around 300€, but looks like prices went up slightly.

    Currently all hardware components (needing semiconductors which translates to pretty much all of them) are significantly more expensive.

    Every next Ryzen generation past the 2nd (Zen+) has lower memory bandwidth and though it may not be important in real life applications, that's something that bothers me :)

    That's a treacherous field that actually starts with RAM. I often see people going presumably for "bandwidth" (GHz) and ending up with expensive and not fast memory because they are cycles ignorant. Concrete case: DDR4-3200 16,18,18,18,38 is slower than 3000 15 ... 35 but most people would go for the 3200.

    Also it seems that the AMD people have successfully worked on cache prefetch logic and other (usually not noticed) innards.

    All in all my private favourite quick benchmark, a highly (hand) optimized sfc64 PRNG variant reached about 7.5 GB/s on my Ryzen 1700 with slightly faster RAM, and about 9.3 GB/s on the 4750G, each on a single core. Now, does that mean that the 4750G is just ca. 25% faster? No, of course not. It means that the single-core performance in very memory intense ARX operations got about 25% faster (and general performance ca. 33% higher) ... at the same time multi-core performance increased about 200%. I'll certainly not complain, especially since my new workstation runs slightly lower spec'd memory yet is significantly faster even in very memory intense tests.

    And with all that said keep in mind that my major reason to get a new processor was not a need for more performance but to get a better graphics solution (which in my case translates to getting rid of a graphics cards and NVidia troubles) - and "thrown in" I got a very considerable increase in performance.

    I'm very happy with my 4750G.

  • verovero Member, Host Rep

    @jsg said:
    That's a treacherous field that actually starts with RAM.

    Just check results from userbenchmark with same memory for 2000 and 3000 (or 5000) Ryzens, e.g. for two sticks of 3200MHz CL16 configured in dual channel you would most likely see something above 40GBps for Ryzen 2000 and only above 30GBps for next generations. Later CPUs are faster in IPC regard, so no one cares about these bandwidth limitations. They exist and they were discussed enough, but since this is not the thing AMD would like people to talk about they just don't.

    And with all that said keep in mind that my major reason to get a new processor was not a need for more performance but to get a better graphics solution (which in my case translates to getting rid of a graphics cards and NVidia troubles) - and "thrown in" I got a very considerable increase in performance.

    Well, I don't know how built-in graphics can be superior to external, but let it be.

    I'm very happy with my 4750G.

    Awesome. I would be also.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited March 2021

    @vero said:

    @jsg said:
    That's a treacherous field that actually starts with RAM.

    Just check results from userbenchmark with same memory for 2000 and 3000 (or 5000) Ryzens, e.g. for two sticks of 3200MHz CL16 configured in dual channel you would most likely see something above 40GBps for Ryzen 2000 and only above 30GBps for next generations. Later CPUs are faster in IPC regard, so no one cares about these bandwidth limitations. They exist and they were discussed enough, but since this is not the thing AMD would like people to talk about they just don't.

    I think it's simply not critical. The processor is decoupled by (mainly) L3 plus a processor can work only on a limited amount of data anyway. As for periphery disks, incl. fast NVMe, and 100 Gb/s ethernet 25 GB/s memory bandwidth is enough.
    Plus memory speed for the sake of memory speed isn't what customers want and pay for. They pay for performance, say AES throughput, DB searches, etc and for that memory isn't the only path but a smarter processor is too.
    Just look at my example above: At the end of the day the 4750G with (slightly) slower memory is significantly faster then the 1700, even in very much memory bound operations.

    Well, I don't know how built-in graphics can be superior to external, but let it be.

    They highly likely aren't - but then, I didn't care about that. At all. For my use case (and quite a few others) even a 10 years old Radeon or an old intel built-in graphics is damn good enough. For gamers I would of course recommend a 3000 or 5000 plus a graphics card.

  • @vero said:

    @jsg said:
    That's a treacherous field that actually starts with RAM.

    Just check results from userbenchmark with same memory for 2000 and 3000 (or 5000) Ryzens, e.g. for two sticks of 3200MHz CL16 configured in dual channel you would most likely see something above 40GBps for Ryzen 2000 and only above 30GBps for next generations.

    Link? Couldn't see any 2 sticks above 40GBps on userbenchmark, but could just be me failing on the phone having a filter on.

  • @jsg said: As a developer I need a seriously fast drive so I also looked for one.

    wait wut

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @duckeeyuck said:

    @jsg said: As a developer I need a seriously fast drive so I also looked for one.

    wait wut

    Oh, I see. You've never build LLVM & clang yourself ...

  • @duckeeyuck said:

    @jsg said: As a developer I need a seriously fast drive so I also looked for one.

    wait wut

    What didn't compute?

  • duckeeyuckduckeeyuck Member
    edited March 2021

    @jsg said: Oh, I see. You've never build LLVM & clang yourself ...

    are you a LLVM & clang contributor? do you rebuild it on a daily basis?

    r u one of those people who like to build all their packages because autism or is there a real objective here?

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited March 2021

    @duckeeyuck said:

    @jsg said: Oh, I see. You've never build LLVM & clang yourself ...

    are you a LLVM & clang contributor? do you rebuild it on a daily basis?

    r u one of those people who like to build all their packages because autism or is there a real objective here?

    Civilized people use a bathroom when they need to take a dump. And who the hell are you to presume that I need to defend or justify my position?

  • @jsg said: Civilized people use a bathroom when they need to take a dump. And who the hell are you to presume that I need to defend or justify my position?

    I'm just asking, no need to get defensive, I'm just trying to be logical here.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @duckeeyuck said:

    @jsg said: Civilized people use a bathroom when they need to take a dump. And who the hell are you to presume that I need to defend or justify my position?

    I'm just asking, no need to get defensive, I'm just trying to be logical here.

    The only thing I'm really interested in here is, let me quote from OP

    What did you get in terms of CPU/APU, memory, disks etc - and why?

  • NoCommentNoComment Member
    edited March 2021

    A slight necro, yes, and to bring the thread back on-topic...

    I was thinking about getting an offline workstation and looked around for options, but remembered this thread. I had built all my PCs before this, but this time I was thinking of getting something small (like really small). Inspired by this thread, I went to look for 4650G or 4750G tiny desktops, but they weren't tiny enough. They were still something like 8-10 litres BIG. I found this lenovo tiny desktop which claims to be 1 litre, and it sports a 4650GE/4750GE. It would cost me around $500/600 (before upgrading ram and disks, they come with 4 GB ram and 500 GB HDD lol). Basically, I would be paying a huge premium for the small size, and getting an APU that would otherwise be impossible to buy.

    (Also, I feel like the GE variant which has a TDP of 35W might be a better choice than the G variant with 65W. After all, if you're going with an APU, less power is probably better. Sadly there are very very few 15W APU options for desktops)

    That said, the 3400G's GPU appears to as good as (if not slightly better than) the 4750G. If I could get a 3400G for $150, then I might consider building a desktop and wait for the 5000 series ryzen APUS (which will have "consumer" variants). Alas, it's a bad time for building PCs and I'll likely buy the 1L lenovo desktop. I'll wait maybe 1-2 months and see how it goes.

    If I do end up building one, I'll likely buy the ASROCK DeskMini X300 (2 litres) which comes as barebones. The bios seems to support raid and has all the features you would need. The only downside is the lack for gen 4 pcie which is not a problem for me.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @smallbibi

    As far as I know there are some very small (in the 1 to 3L range) boxes available, at least one of them even with 1 M2 slot and (connectors and room for) 2 2.5" SATA drives. Unfortunately I forgot which box (name model) but I think it was from either Asus or AsRock iirc. That box supports/comes with at least 4650 and 4750 Ryzens. That should come quite close to what you want, no? Plus, iirc they also have a 3xxxG (and/or GE) model.

    Thanked by 1NoComment
  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited March 2021

    @smallbibi said:
    A slight necro, yes, and to bring the thread back on-topic...

    I was thinking about getting an offline workstation and looked around for options, but remembered this thread. I had built all my PCs before this, but this time I was thinking of getting something small (like really small). Inspired by this thread, I went to look for 4650G or 4750G tiny desktops, but they weren't tiny enough. They were still something like 8-10 litres BIG. I found this lenovo tiny desktop which claims to be 1 litre, and it sports a 4650GE/4750GE. It would cost me around $500/600 (before upgrading ram and disks, they come with 4 GB ram and 500 GB HDD lol). Basically, I would be paying a huge premium for the small size, and getting an APU that would otherwise be impossible to buy.

    (Also, I feel like the GE variant which has a TDP of 35W might be a better choice than the G variant with 65W. After all, if you're going with an APU, less power is probably better. Sadly there are very very few 15W APU options for desktops)

    That said, the 3400G's GPU appears to as good as (if not slightly better than) the 4750G. If I could get a 3400G for $150, then I might consider building a desktop and wait for the 5000 series ryzen APUS (which will have "consumer" variants). Alas, it's a bad time for building PCs and I'll likely buy the 1L lenovo desktop. I'll wait maybe 1-2 months and see how it goes.

    If I do end up building one, I'll likely buy the ASROCK DeskMini X300 (2 litres) which comes as barebones. The bios seems to support raid and has all the features you would need. The only downside is the lack for gen 4 pcie which is not a problem for me.

    Lenovo makes awesome Ryzens in small formats for $500-600. I bought a few fanless for BF. This is a deal thread from a Canadian forum, but I'm sure you can find similar model in your country: https://forums.redflagdeals.com/lenovo-canada-lenovo-thinkcentre-m75q-tiny-gen-2-amd-ryzen-7-pro-4750ge-win10-4gb-500gb-hdd-570-2438949/

    Edit: re-read your post, you seem to be talking about this, so my post was redundant.

    Thanked by 1NoComment
  • @jsg said:
    As far as I know there are some very small (in the 1 to 3L range) boxes available, at least one of them even with 1 M2 slot and (connectors and room for) 2 2.5" SATA drives. Unfortunately I forgot which box (name model) but I think it was from either Asus or AsRock iirc. That box supports/comes with at least 4650 and 4750 Ryzens. That should come quite close to what you want, no? Plus, iirc they also have a 3xxxG (and/or GE) model.

    There might be but it comes down to the issue of availability and price. I don't really want to overpay a lot but I understand it's troubling times. Honestly, I could live with a slightly bigger case even though I already have an ATX and a laptop now. But the small form factor would be nice. It would allow me to move it around and I see it as paying a premium for the form factor.

    @TimboJones Yup, that's what I was talking about. It seems to be a pretty good deal at this point in time. I really would have preferred getting those 2-3L boxes like @jsg mentioned for the extra SATA drives but I'm not too sure where to buy those. I could only find the barebones and obviously, price gouged APUs.

Sign In or Register to comment.