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Comments
The issue I have with it is that like no ISP in my country supports it lol. Now fix that
You're years late on this, jsg is a lost cause. He refuses to learn anything about IPv6 and outright refuses to believe there's anything wrong with IPV4, only that people are misusing it and NAT solves any/all problems. He doesn't even understand basic IP subnetting or else he'd understand how insane his idea of a /24 for whole organizations, regardless of size and locations, actually is.
How would you know? It would be fucking mental to put nanobots behind NAT and wouldn't be done for obvious design reasons.
Easy.. tunnelbroker.net Then you can even switch ISPs and keep the same IP blocks.
Which is why IPv6 is not using 256-bit IP addresses.. It was thoroughly discussed and debated...
Yep and netflix stops working...
There are more tunnelbrokers that won't have Netflix blocked. In any case it's advisable that you disconnect or force IPv4 use for those streaming services.
Hi,
Recently, I have a EUuserv vps, but I can't use ipv4. I used to use wireguard. Due to Cloudflare's control over warp's unofficial application, it will be unstable. I finally saw your blog and wanted to implement it according to your method.
But after reading your blog post, which:
"sudo ip addr add 192.168.84.2/24 dev vx84
sudo ip route add 0.0.0.0/0 via 192.168.84.1"
I don't understand what "192.168.84.2/24" and "192.168.84.1" are?
And what is "192.168.84.1/24" in: "sudo ip addr add 192.168.84.1/24 dev vx84"?
I think, if I can understand this, I can try it according to your method.
thank you very much!
I would be interested in reading this if you have a link. We've found the same to be true, btw. From an actual provider's POV: when talking about full routes and giving out ridiculously sized IPv6 (compared to v4) subnet spaces it just hasn't been a nice experience. Additionally, a significant portion of software/other apps aren't even compatible and/or just flat out break. IPv6 is has added way more overhead in workarounds, management, and hardware costs than just acquiring additional IPv4 space has cost us.
There are some workarounds we're having to implement now, but none of them are 'nice' and all offer some level of con. These probably wouldn't be necessary on an internal or local network but for things specific to being a provider they are--and I now understand why Vultr only gives you up to 2 IPv6 addresses and other massive cloud platforms don't even bother
The real kicker: virtually none of our customers even use IPv6 besides a few hobbyist edge-cases and a handful of abusers that got booted. That has been it over thousands of VMs. The cost of managing and supporting it has far outweighed any 'savings' already for a smaller host like us. Inversely, our highest paying customers (generally GPU or bulk compute resource customers) don't even want IPv6 as of now.
100% true. The costs are HUGE to handle the increased table sizes/amounts of IPs. I don't really think people understand how much the price jumps in hardware costs--or you're doing workarounds which get complex and devalue QoS. Maybe all the IPv6 hobbyists have big $$$ to dump on cutting edge routers?
I definitely don't care for more IoT devices (personal preference), but of the few I have to use I definitely don't like them having public-facing addresses by default. I guess not everyone shares the same concerns about privacy/security, but I can't see how that benefits me in any way. I guess my NSA agent would have an easier time assigning an address to each grain of rice in my rice jar.
https://dmca.fileditch.com/ipv6.mp4
LOL if it isn't Yoursunny the IPv6 zealot, now singing the praises of IPv4! What's next, pigs flying?
Wasn't IPv6 the holy grail, necessary and must have and the world blows without it?
Could not go IPv6 only because nothing works?
Isn't it ironic how you're pushing IPv4 here, but in other places you're bashing companies for not having IPv6? Meanwhile, some of the worlds largests telcos (Telia and now Starlink) won't even bother with it for their customers
Let's just face it IPv6 was DOA and still is. It's over convoluted, over complicated, unnecessary, resource hog, just makes routing that much harder and expensive, huge drag on maintainability and general nuisance -- something you want to support only if you have to.
Thaaaat being said, we have a service range plans which would call for IPv6 because CGNAT IPv4 would be default, and there IPv6 might offer some valid benefit, maybe enough to justify the headaches. But we already know it would be a downgrade in network performance, routes won't just be as good with IPv6.
Not sure if we will go through that pain, or the pain of just buying massive numbers of IPv4.
Anyway, time to grab some morning coffee and read this thread fully.
Meanwhile, more pushups
Now that's an argument that hits the nail on the head!
The world has spoken, and IPv6 just ain't cutting it. The vast majority of people are sticking with IPv4, and for good reason. Routing IPv6 if it becomes mainstream is going to be a total PITA, and also you have to start protecting against your internal network as well for routing issues (RA)
Suprise Suprise! A chinese person advocating for more surveillance and control for authority. Now we know who's CCP's biach.
Seriously WTF, you don't see anything wrong with this crapola? Next the objectionable content is not liking IPv6, am i rite?
You do know that your IPv6 zealotry isn't very popular and objectionable for some, should we have the police arrest You?. You are right now reaping the benefits of freedom of speech, while advocating for authoritariasm.
Are we gonna start policing people based on their IP preferences now? What's next, mandatory IPv6 tattoos? Perhaps on the neck, with RFID tag embedded as well?
If the building router performs NAT, the campus border router would not see who's downloading.
If it isn't yoursunny, your (non)friendly neighborhood CCP secret agent on a mission to enforce IPv6 on the world for ultimate control and power?
So you are CCPs agent, and your push for IPv6 everywhere is actually about control and power. How bad has the CCP hurt your brain and emotions?
You really think CCP is that great and magnificent they should have control over every aspect of everyone's lives globally? Should i ask permission to flush the toilet too?
You really hate free speech and access to information that much?
Thanks, now we know where you are coming from. You are an authoritarian in-love with gaining more power and control.
(b) you didn't get the point which wasn't a users system which processes a couple of addresses per second if that but switches, routers, etc. which have to process millions upon millions of IP addresses per second.
(c) 128-bit tables and other data is 4 times the size of 32 bit data, and so are buses. Short, 128-bits drives cost up very, very considerably.
(d) 4 times the memory also translates to chip size - but many modern processor are already close to (some even very close to) what's technically and economically feasible.
(e) the packet headers also enormously grow in size which may sound irrelevant or ridiculous to an web surfer but that factor can seriously impede or even make impractical other protocols. Just think about pings growing by about 200 bits.
These are guys who can design better routers in their dorm room during weekends while partying than the big corporations don't think it costs anything to replace 100% of hardware globally. These guys just know that DDR4 memory access speed is faster than core to core latency as well!
He is not an normal person tho, he wants absolute power over his jar of rice, he just needs the specific information of it's location by micrometer, size, composition, temperature and who ate it, and their location, stomach contents -- because hey perhaps he ate more than the allowed daily 350kcal!
I treated you with colleagial respect and fairness and submitted relevant arguments and from now on I expect the same from you. Until now, for example, you failed to even properly demonstrate that 4 billion times of today's IP address space (allegedly) is not sufficient, yet you insist on needing that number to the square.
You can forget that, they are unable to do that. They are zealots, which means it's a religion. Emotional thing, not facts. You cannot argue emotion with facts effectively, it almost never works out for a emotional person. Rational person sure, once they realize they are being emotional.
And ultimately, this clearly is not about IPv6 per-se, but more about surveillance, state authority, control of population type of stuff for him. He wants IPv6 so it would be easier to arrest people ffs.
He is quite literally the antithesis of what i am, and therefore what our company policies are. We are very strong advocates of freedom of speech, freedom (and therefore also personal responsibility) and data driven decision making etc.
It's fun to realize where people come from tho, and now all that zealotry makes perfect sense from him. He is totally infatuated with power and control and wants to push for more power and control. Given how he has acted before i would hazard a guess for lack of empathy, and potentially even narcissism. Hard to tell without in-person meetings, and i am not a psychologist -- but there are some signs towards that.
Therefore, it's useless to argue with him, and counter productive. For anything but the popcorn value
He will never change his mind, there is no too great technical obstacle and no too great cost, because this is not really about the technical aspects of IPv6 -- but more about gaining more control and power over population at large.
Funny that he apparently has moved to the US, enjoying all the perks of freedom while trying to remove the freedoms from others.
What's with the sudden burst of rage @PulsedMedia? This is an old thread.
Currently (not low spec) processors work at about 3 - 4.5 GHz which just so happens to match 32 bits, so an ideal processor with an ideal instruction set like e.g. a 'look up an element in a rather full 32-bit list and return it if existing or NULL if not' in 1 cycle. Unfortunately such ideal processors don't exist so we have to either trade time (speed) for space (memory) and/or for cost (e.g. TCAM) and still we can't deal with (low) billions of 32 bit addresses unless we shell out really big money and use expensive (and not available to just every Joe or Harry) networking ASICs, very expensive special memory, etc.
And all that with 32 bit addresses that nicely fit in both the processor word size and available memory (as in e.g. '16 GB RAM'). But we can handle, store, and work with the IP4 space albeit quite to very costly at the network core level.
This is what these zealots simply do not understand, like at all.
Apparently they could during weekends in booze haze build better routers than say Juniper at a dime per dollar cost, and DDR4 is faster than core to core latency too. Software routing is all you need and works perfectly.
That's when they bombed our minidedi offer thread with this crapola and stupidity.
This "we will need way more than 4 billion times 4 billion device addresses! But we wont need to store, handle, process, etc more than a tiny, tiny fraction of all those addresses" is just one example of the sheer idiocy and nonchalance from the IPv6 idiot camp.
Can't argue emotion with facts. Also dunning-kruger seems to be at play. Just sayin'
Stupid is, as stupid does. IPv6 is in other ways as well convoluted and takes part in things it should not. Quanitity wins is typical brute-force approach to difficult things where elegance should win.
Seen the IPv4 extension proposals for example? They all go beyond the scope of IPv4, and wants to add features. Some are ballpark correct, almost.
It has started to bug me enough that i've been considering just writing the damn RFC myself for IPv4 and spend some hard earned cash to do some research work and probably a proof of concept as well. Would probably need to spend less than 10k € tho, but that 10k € could buy more servers, or make other enhancements to our software stack.
The basic idea is: "Just add 2 more octets", or even "Make adding octets dynamic upto X number", and the endpoints (client and end point) are the only ones which need any support for it, and the base routing will remain completely intact, completely unchanged. Imagine having ^255^255 IPs just like that. or hell even ^255^255^255^255 -- with just software work, zero change on hardware. and 100% optional. If doing dynamic, there needs to be upper bound tho because packet size is not unlimited.
The routers don't even need NAT support because all they see is a normal, typical IPv6 packet.
OS's are updated fairly frequently regardless, the last .5% which does not get updated is irrelevant, those are industrial machines typically etc. and the sysadmins there can work around it OR just make sure they do not need to access extended range. That old systems should not directly access internet anyways.
packet header has some space for that, not a problem.
It won't even require DPI because it's header data.
On other subject, i do agree that we should increase the default MTU, but since it requries support for all routers globally,and path MTU discovery is not very reliable not sure if that will ever happen sadly.
Sounds like i have UNDERESTIMATE the costs when doing the back of the napkin analysis on our minidedi thread because of these zealots. Interesting.
For us, the #1 highest cost is man hours, overwhelmingly. they are so scarce it's not funny.
For us it's ONE customer who wants it, they just used a tunnel for that. Out of tens and tens of thousands customers, i can remember only one.
Any ticket like that, ie asking about IPv6 would be bumped to me, and i cannot remember more than one person actually having use case for it. We host a number of VPN providers for example.
This portion cannot be understated. Routing IPv4 already is expensive at these scales, you can buy a friggin' brand new car for the price of barebones router, that is not even fully furnished. Even if using second hand used hardware, with no support contracts, and outdated firmware since no support contract. You spend car level money on these. If you go new, you spend house level money. Well, at the very least apartment level.
Now people want to add exponentially more routes in a manner which requires it's own ASIC, on-chip cache and memory, in a convoluted messy way? Even the L2 caches have to grow like ^32 -- and they wan't to pay exactly this for it: Zero, Nad, Zip, Zilch.
even behind firewall, networking and IoT everything is CRAZY. Everyone pushing unsecured Wifi IOT devices, which call home the first thing because the app works via their servers, contain microphones (Nanoleaf w/ the audio thingy as an example) and other sensors. Ofc, minimal security as well.
and WIFI can be broken in minutes. Good bye security.
Hell, there are business using Unraid on a network with Wifi, and unraid goes out of their way to minimize security .... Can you say databreach fast enough?
Tho, most people are uninteresting enough it not to matter, even most businesses to be honest. But little by little privacy is being broken, and that by extension means democracy is broken, and therefore freedoms lost.
Holy shit that was awesome! Shared it
someone linked me to this, and no rage. I've been having some nice popcorn time with this
I'm assigning 192.168.84.x to the two endpoints of the VXLAN tunnel, so that the dual stack server and the IPv6-only server can find each other.
This could be any private IPv4 subnet.
Thank you for the reply!
I deployed according to your method, but the final result is like this:
root@eu1:~# ip addr show vx84
2: vx84: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1420 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default qlen 1000
link/ether 82:7b:89:7e:0c:09 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
inet 192.168.84.2/24 scope global vx84
valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
inet6 fe80::807b:89ff:fe7e:c09/64 scope link
valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
PING 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
From 192.168.84.2 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
From 192.168.84.2 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable
From 192.168.84.2 icmp_seq=3 Destination Host Unreachable
From 192.168.84.2 icmp_seq=4 Destination Host Unreachable
--- 1.1.1.1 ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 0 received, +4 errors, 100% packet loss, time 3097ms
pipe 4
May I ask where I set it wrong? thank you very much!
@tergarsam
This suggests the IPv6-only server is not seeing ARP replies from the dual stack server.
Use tcpdump on the dual stack server to check whether it receives ARP request from the IPv6-only server.
Wow, it seems LET is kaputt, something seems to be broken. Isn't LET supposed to be the private playground of a fervant Russia hater from Romania anymore?
I'm still mistrusting and surprised and wonder what drove the LET admins to suddenly favouring discussions that don't turn LET into a stinky and rotten pit, driven by politics and emotional and hateful at that?
Probably it's better for me to largely stay away and just have a quick peek once a week in case someone contacted me or some realist (like e.g. @PulsedMedia ) writes something actually tech-related and based in real life experience ... until the russian forces are done with their work. Meanwhile I want to thank the nato countries for not only sending a major part of their weapons and ammunition to the big russian shredder in Nazistan, but even increasing their production capacity. Not only is this good, because after all a shredder needs material to shred, but it's also very handy for Russia to fight opponents who have minimized the amounts of weapons and ammunitions available to them.
And of course I want to extend my gratitude to the "community" of western (vulgo: nato) countries for amusing me again and again. Examples are what I mentioned above, IPv6, and mighty finland joining nato (btw. congrats for painting a red dot on your forehead and forcing the russian mic to produce hardened broom sticks for the babushkas to be able to fend of the finland forces).
For those of you who ignore history I can console you. Do not worry! We know i.a. from the Romans that it's totally normal for empires to become, "think", and act utterly insane before going belly up. Of course the people (as in "we, the people") of those countries theoretically easily could get rid of the insane but experience shows that in reality they rarely do.
Enjoy the show.
As the plank owner of the Resident Benchmarker title you have an obligation to the next generation of LET not to descend into madness prior to the title being passed on.
Do not worry, I'm quite resistant.
I only saw it today. I'll take some time to try following the tutorial later
Not worth it, euserv is slow af these days(or atleast last time i tried it)
Isn't EUServ still charging their setup-fee as a monthly cost or has that changed?