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Raspberry Pi Colo
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Raspberry Pi Colo

alexnfalexnf Member

Hi guys, is this still a thing? Now when Raspberry pi 4 has so much more memory and faster cpu would people want a co-location for there Pi's instead of cheap VMs that you dont own and have no control over? How much would a reasonable price be for 1 IPv6, 1 IPv4, 100Mbps port and free bw on fairshare in your opinion? REQs would be, all raspberry pis should have PoE hat and installation fee about 10euros to cover hardware, installations would be done 1 time per month.

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Comments

  • alexnfalexnf Member

    Hi, i went thru that list but i would like to hear out the members themself on the forums :)

  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Patron Provider

    I currently only offer leasing of Raspberry Pis via RPIServers.com but it seems like the ongoing costs is around $10 a month on average.

  • alexnfalexnf Member

    @AlienData_Josh said:
    I currently only offer leasing of Raspberry Pis via RPIServers.com but it seems like the ongoing costs is around $10 a month on average.

    Ye, looks like it. i would like to know if users would acctually pay for this service or if they rather use a VM instead.

    Plus side on raspberry pi is that you can have 2x USBs and a big SD Card for storage i guess.

  • alexnfalexnf Member

    Would 10mbps port work to? or does it feel limited?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @alexnf said:
    Would 10mbps port work to? or does it feel limited?

    Honestly 10mbit is still a great connection for small stuff.

  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Patron Provider

    @alexnf said:

    @AlienData_Josh said:
    I currently only offer leasing of Raspberry Pis via RPIServers.com but it seems like the ongoing costs is around $10 a month on average.

    Ye, looks like it. i would like to know if users would acctually pay for this service or if they rather use a VM instead.

    Plus side on raspberry pi is that you can have 2x USBs and a big SD Card for storage i guess.

    Depends on the use case. Some people like knowing the hardware is dedicated to them and not part of a "pool".

    @alexnf said:
    Would 10mbps port work to? or does it feel limited?

    10Mbps sustained is usually more than enough just like Jar had said. But limiting the connection down to 10Mbps for everything is complete nuts. (Unless over the sustained limit)

  • alexnfalexnf Member

    Hm, should maybe do 10mbps with 100mbps burst then.

  • My question from the linked thread is still unanswered:

    Genuine question: this seems quite expensive when you're supplying the hardware and have to replace it if it fails, etc. Why go for this over renting a server? I'm assuming it's unique hardware requirements but struggling to see a large market who want that.

    Kimsufi and other dedi places will give you a decent amount of punch for $10/mo with the bonus it's not running ARM (nightmare for niche Docker containers etc)

  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Patron Provider

    @alexnf 100Mbps burst would be enough for most things.

  • alexnfalexnf Member

    @danielhm said:
    My question from the linked thread is still unanswered:

    Genuine question: this seems quite expensive when you're supplying the hardware and have to replace it if it fails, etc. Why go for this over renting a server? I'm assuming it's unique hardware requirements but struggling to see a large market who want that.

    Kimsufi and other dedi places will give you a decent amount of punch for $10/mo with the bonus it's not running ARM (nightmare for niche Docker containers etc)

    Maybe France or Canada is not the place people want to locate?

  • danielhmdanielhm Member
    edited May 2020

    @alexnf said:

    @danielhm said:
    My question from the linked thread is still unanswered:

    Genuine question: this seems quite expensive when you're supplying the hardware and have to replace it if it fails, etc. Why go for this over renting a server? I'm assuming it's unique hardware requirements but struggling to see a large market who want that.

    Kimsufi and other dedi places will give you a decent amount of punch for $10/mo with the bonus it's not running ARM (nightmare for niche Docker containers etc)

    Maybe France or Canada is not the place people want to locate?

    Then pay more and get somewhere else? Still cheaper than all the time/effort to colo budget hardware. Or spend $10 and you can still get US/Germany/France/Canada via ServerHunter and probably even more if you try to look.

    Question still unanswered: looking for someone who actually has a use-case rather than some speculative assertions.

  • alexnfalexnf Member

    @danielhm said:

    @alexnf said:

    @danielhm said:
    My question from the linked thread is still unanswered:

    Genuine question: this seems quite expensive when you're supplying the hardware and have to replace it if it fails, etc. Why go for this over renting a server? I'm assuming it's unique hardware requirements but struggling to see a large market who want that.

    Kimsufi and other dedi places will give you a decent amount of punch for $10/mo with the bonus it's not running ARM (nightmare for niche Docker containers etc)

    Maybe France or Canada is not the place people want to locate?

    Then pay more and get somewhere else? Still cheaper than all the time/effort to colo budget hardware. Or spend $10 and you can still get US/Germany/France/Canada via ServerHunter and probably even more if you try to look.

    Question still unanswered: looking for someone who actually has a use-case rather than some speculative assertions.

    Maybe the user only have a budget of 5bucks per month and want to own the hardware?

  • danielhmdanielhm Member
    edited May 2020

    @alexnf said:

    @danielhm said:

    @alexnf said:

    @danielhm said:
    My question from the linked thread is still unanswered:

    Genuine question: this seems quite expensive when you're supplying the hardware and have to replace it if it fails, etc. Why go for this over renting a server? I'm assuming it's unique hardware requirements but struggling to see a large market who want that.

    Kimsufi and other dedi places will give you a decent amount of punch for $10/mo with the bonus it's not running ARM (nightmare for niche Docker containers etc)

    Maybe France or Canada is not the place people want to locate?

    Then pay more and get somewhere else? Still cheaper than all the time/effort to colo budget hardware. Or spend $10 and you can still get US/Germany/France/Canada via ServerHunter and probably even more if you try to look.

    Question still unanswered: looking for someone who actually has a use-case rather than some speculative assertions.

    Maybe the user only have a budget of 5bucks per month and want to own the hardware?

    Sounds like the nightmare client who will rent for one month, then demand free return of the hardware.

    Thanked by 1doughnet
  • I figured situations like that is why you would want setup fees to cover shipping to and from. No reason why the host should foot the bill

  • @MINIMAN10000 said:
    I figured situations like that is why you would want setup fees to cover shipping to and from. No reason why the host should foot the bill

    Exactly what I'm eluding to - your $5/mo becomes $5/mo + $20 (or whatever) shipping + $50 hardware at which point... $10/mo doesn't seem so unattractive for a hassle free renting experience ¯_(ツ)_/¯

  • alexnfalexnf Member
    edited May 2020

    @danielhm said:

    @alexnf said:

    @danielhm said:

    @alexnf said:

    @danielhm said:
    My question from the linked thread is still unanswered:

    Genuine question: this seems quite expensive when you're supplying the hardware and have to replace it if it fails, etc. Why go for this over renting a server? I'm assuming it's unique hardware requirements but struggling to see a large market who want that.

    Kimsufi and other dedi places will give you a decent amount of punch for $10/mo with the bonus it's not running ARM (nightmare for niche Docker containers etc)

    Maybe France or Canada is not the place people want to locate?

    Then pay more and get somewhere else? Still cheaper than all the time/effort to colo budget hardware. Or spend $10 and you can still get US/Germany/France/Canada via ServerHunter and probably even more if you try to look.

    Question still unanswered: looking for someone who actually has a use-case rather than some speculative assertions.

    Maybe the user only have a budget of 5bucks per month and want to own the hardware?

    Sounds like the nightmare client who will rent for one month, then demand free return of the hardware.

    Customer always pay freight to and from the host, so no issues if the customer wants it returned, but 12months contract and pree-paid would be REQ ofc and if he wants it returned before it he will lose his contract and money he paid for it. Feels ok for me, ¯(ツ)

  • @alexnf said:

    Customer always pay freight to and from the host, so no issues if the customer wants it returned, but 12months contract and pree-paid would be REQ ofc and if he wants it returned before it he will lose his contract and money he paid for it. Feels ok for me, ¯(ツ)

    Soo.. $10/mo * 12 + hardware + shipping ~= $200 up front

    I can totally see why you want to sell, but I cannot see who would want to pay that. Good luck!

  • alexnfalexnf Member
    edited May 2020

    @danielhm said:

    @alexnf said:

    Customer always pay freight to and from the host, so no issues if the customer wants it returned, but 12months contract and pree-paid would be REQ ofc and if he wants it returned before it he will lose his contract and money he paid for it. Feels ok for me, ¯(ツ)

    Soo.. $10/mo * 12 + hardware + shipping ~= $200 up front

    I can totally see why you want to sell, but I cannot see who would want to pay that. Good luck!

    No, $10 setup fee, 3-4$ per month, so it would be about $46 dollar upfront for the first year and $36 next year, its easy math.

  • SGrafSGraf Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 2020

    Soo.. $10/mo * 12 + hardware + shipping ~= $200 up front

    No, $10 setup fee, 3-4$ per month, so it would be about $46 dollar upfront for the first year and $36 next year, its easy math.

    tbh i think the hardware risk is too high for something like this.
    a pi4 4gb will run you around 60 eur, a high quality sd card with 32gb will run you another 10 to 15, you need a compatible and stable powersupply for it( so you are looking at another 15). ( i am ignoring any case/box/cooling considerations to simplify things).

    totals at 60+10 to 15 +15 => 85 to 90

    Based on my previous experience with the pi-boards i would say, expect to replace the sd card every 12 months or so. (so 15 eur / 12 months = 1.25 eur/mo)

    initial hw over 3 years lifecycle:

    • pi (board, ps, first sd card) ... 75 to 80 /(12months*3years).... 2.08 eur/mo
    • sd card replacements .... 1.25/mo
    • 1x ipv4 .... 1 eur/mo
    • data traffic (assuming lowend... 1 eur /mo)
    • 10w powerdraw (102474.33 = 7274 Watt hours = 7.3 kwh/month)0.2 eur per kwh... 1.46 for power

    so you are looking at 6.79 for the thing as operative cost per month on the provider side.

    =>> Here you see your 3 to 4 usd is not possible.

    So my guess would be to realistically price this at 12 to 15 eur/month.
    You are also looking at a fee for re-installs as those are hard to automate on these boards.

    (as providers want to eat/feed their staff too, and have to calculate for the risk of it not being used and so on).

    Thanked by 1danielhm
  • danielhmdanielhm Member
    edited May 2020

    @SGraf said:
    ...
    So my guess would be to realistically price this at 12 to 15 eur/month.
    You are also looking at a fee for re-installs as those are hard to automate on these boards.

    (as providers want to eat/feed their staff too, and have to calculate for the risk of it not being used and so on).

    Completely agree with this - it's not a mystery that there isn't significant supply at the $3-4 USD monthly price point - it's not profitable. RPI are simply not designed to be used like this so this will need to be covered by remote hands which scales poorly.

    @alexnf said:
    its easy math.

    All math is easy if you just pluck numbers from the sky.

  • serv_eeserv_ee Member

    @SGraf said:

    Soo.. $10/mo * 12 + hardware + shipping ~= $200 up front

    No, $10 setup fee, 3-4$ per month, so it would be about $46 dollar upfront for the first year and $36 next year, its easy math.

    tbh i think the hardware risk is too high for something like this.
    a pi4 4gb will run you around 60 eur, a high quality sd card with 32gb will run you another 10, you need a compatible and stable powersupply for it( so you are looking at another 15). ( i am ignoring any case/box/cooling considerations to simplify things).

    totals at 60+10+15 => 75

    Based on my previous experience with the pi-boards i would say, expect to replace the sd card every 12 months or so. (so 15 eur / 12 months = 1.25 eur/mo)

    initial hw over 3 years lifecycle:

    • pi (board, ps, first sd card) ... 75 /(12months*3years).... 2.08 eur/mo
    • sd card replacements .... 1.25/mo
    • 1x ipv4 .... 1 eur/mo
    • data traffic (assuming lowend... 1 eur /mo)
    • 10w powerdraw (102474.33 = 7274 Watt hours = 7.3 kwh/month)0.2 eur per kwh... 1.46 for power

    so you are looking at 6.79 for the thing as operative cost per month on the provider side.

    =>> Here you see your 3 to 4 usd is not possible.

    So my guess would be to realistically price this at 12 to 15 eur/month.
    You are also looking at a fee for re-installs as those are hard to automate on these boards.

    (as providers want to eat/feed their staff too, and have to calculate for the risk of it not being used and so on).

    Oh shit, actually an detailed post on here. Good job!

  • SGrafSGraf Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 2020

    Actually made a math error

  • serv_eeserv_ee Member

    Doesnt even matter. Thats post of the year so far for me.

  • SGrafSGraf Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 2020

    @serv_ee said:
    Doesn't even matter. Thats post of the year so far for me.

    Wait until i (hopefully) get a provider tag after applying next month.

    i have some realistically priced, non oversold, within the price specs laid out in the rules thread coming to market soon.

    Thanked by 1serv_ee
  • alexnfalexnf Member
    edited May 2020

    @SGraf said:

    Soo.. $10/mo * 12 + hardware + shipping ~= $200 up front

    No, $10 setup fee, 3-4$ per month, so it would be about $46 dollar upfront for the first year and $36 next year, its easy math.

    tbh i think the hardware risk is too high for something like this.
    a pi4 4gb will run you around 60 eur, a high quality sd card with 32gb will run you another 10 to 15, you need a compatible and stable powersupply for it( so you are looking at another 15). ( i am ignoring any case/box/cooling considerations to simplify things).

    totals at 60+10 to 15 +15 => 75 to 80

    Based on my previous experience with the pi-boards i would say, expect to replace the sd card every 12 months or so. (so 15 eur / 12 months = 1.25 eur/mo)

    initial hw over 3 years lifecycle:

    • pi (board, ps, first sd card) ... 75 to 80 /(12months*3years).... 2.08 eur/mo
    • sd card replacements .... 1.25/mo
    • 1x ipv4 .... 1 eur/mo
    • data traffic (assuming lowend... 1 eur /mo)
    • 10w powerdraw (102474.33 = 7274 Watt hours = 7.3 kwh/month)0.2 eur per kwh... 1.46 for power

    so you are looking at 6.79 for the thing as operative cost per month on the provider side.

    =>> Here you see your 3 to 4 usd is not possible.

    So my guess would be to realistically price this at 12 to 15 eur/month.
    You are also looking at a fee for re-installs as those are hard to automate on these boards.

    (as providers want to eat/feed their staff too, and have to calculate for the risk of it not being used and so on).

    Users that want to co-locate there pi can do it for 3-4$ per month, bw, ip and power included in that price, your calculation is wrong because we dont have the same costs it seems, your numbers dont match ours.

    User cost to get a pi will be 35-60 dollar + PoE-hat cost (15dollar) + SD Card, a good card cost about 10-15bucks that will hold for a long time (more then a year).

    60+15+15 = $90 for dedicated hardware if you go with the 4GB version of it.
    Shipping about 6-10dollar and installation fee $10, its a total of $110.
    Then you have the monthly fee of $3, that will be $36 yearly.

    So if you dont have a pi already and want to send it for co-location it will cost you $146 first year but its your hardware and no one will sneak into your VM and look at your files like any cloud provider can do. its about 12dollar per month for the first year and next year it would be $36 in total. Split it up over 3 years and it will be $6 per month.

    The provider dont supply the Pi, thats why its called Co-location and not Dedicated raspberry pi hosting.

  • SGrafSGraf Member, Patron Provider

    @alexnf said:

    Users that want to co-locate there pi can do it for 3-4$ per month, bw, ip and power included in that price, your calculation is wrong because we dont have the same costs it seems, your numbers dont match ours.

    please do share how much an ip address costs you per month...

    example: you have a /23 (512 addresses, 510 hosts) from ripe and pay the yearly fee. 1400 /yr => 0.3 per address /month

    then you factor in the cost per switchport (switch cost/ports /10 years runtime), cost for your router hw (again, over 10 years). Electricity for the switch/router?

    how much data traffic will you allow on the pi per year and how much is that worth?

    how much does the 10w of electricity cost you per month?

    (ignoring cooling, dc maintenance,cost fo the space...)

    cost of potential support tickets?

    and last but not least?

    How much is your time worth to put together the offer and how much do you want to earn from doing this? 50ct/pi? 1 usd/pi?, is this worth the hassle?

    or do you want to do this for free? (hint: most likely it wont convert into sales of different products,... so going for this as a loss leader doesnt seem ideal).

  • alexnfalexnf Member
    edited May 2020

    @SGraf said:

    @alexnf said:

    Users that want to co-locate there pi can do it for 3-4$ per month, bw, ip and power included in that price, your calculation is wrong because we dont have the same costs it seems, your numbers dont match ours.

    please do share how much an ip address costs you per month...

    example: you have a /23 (512 addresses, 510 hosts) from ripe and pay the yearly fee. 1400 /yr => 0.3 per address /month

    then you factor in the cost per switchport (switch cost/ports /10 years runtime), cost for your router hw (again, over 10 years). Electricity for the switch/router?

    how much data traffic will you allow on the pi per year and how much is that worth?

    how much does the 10w of electricity cost you per month?

    (ignoring cooling, dc maintenance,cost fo the space...)

    cost of potential support tickets?

    and last but not least?

    How much is your time worth to put together the offer and how much do you want to earn from doing this? 50ct/pi? 1 usd/pi?, is this worth the hassle?

    or do you want to do this for free? (hint: most likely it wont convert into sales of different products,... so going for this as a loss leader doesnt seem ideal).

    I cant share any numbers about the cost, sorry but it wont match yours.
    We wont offer free support (no tickets), we will offer remote restarts so users can re-start there own pi over webinterface and remote hands for $10/30minutes. The project will be for the more experienced users so if you need 200 reboots per day and re-installs its not for you :)

    Will mostly be for fun but we wont work for free, the price is low enough.

  • SGrafSGraf Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 2020

    I cant share any numbers about the cost, sorry but it wont match yours.
    We wont offer free support (no tickets), we will offer remote restarts so users can re-start there own pi over webinterface and remote hands for $10/30minutes. The project will be for the more experienced users so if you need 200 reboots per day and re-installs its not for you :)

    Will mostly be for fun but we wont work for free, the price is low enough.

    re-start there own pi over webinterface

    ... data corruption ahead if you just powercycle the pi's

    We wont offer free support (no tickets),

    Not talking tech-support.... Billing/invoicing issues, time spent closing tickets that report network instability/outages.

    I cant share any numbers about the cost, sorry but it wont match yours.

    So basically, the answer is: "send in your pies, hope the service survives/stays stable the first couple of months and doesn't run off with the hardware"

  • alexnfalexnf Member
    edited May 2020

    @SGraf said:

    I cant share any numbers about the cost, sorry but it wont match yours.
    We wont offer free support (no tickets), we will offer remote restarts so users can re-start there own pi over webinterface and remote hands for $10/30minutes. The project will be for the more experienced users so if you need 200 reboots per day and re-installs its not for you :)

    Will mostly be for fun but we wont work for free, the price is low enough.

    re-start there own pi over webinterface

    ... data corruption ahead if you just powercycle the pi's

    We wont offer free support (no tickets),

    Not talking tech-support.... Billing/invoicing issues, time spent closing tickets that report network instability/outages.

    I cant share any numbers about the cost, sorry but it wont match yours.

    So basically, the answer is: "send in your pies, hope the service survives/stays stable the first couple of months and doesn't run off with the hardware"

    We will send out invoices and nothing more. Email for remote hands.

    We have had our service up since 2014 with more then 40 customers co-locating there pi and everyone is still happy :) so we got a trackrecord longer then most people on this forum i guess. But i understand what you are saying. Right now the co-location cost are $0 per month for our customers.

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