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[RESOLVED] Unacceptably bad way of handling issues by Arubacloud... - Page 3
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[RESOLVED] Unacceptably bad way of handling issues by Arubacloud...

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Comments

  • @bikegremlin said:
    having a hobby, or even a business website on a VPS would mean you have to have someone at it practically daily?

    It means you pays your money and you takes your chances

    And you take some responsibility for the choices you make

    So, you can chose to use shared hosting, or a managed service

    You can chose to do your due dilligence and setup a relatively secure system

    You can chose to go with a smaller provider who might value your business more (assuming you're a decent customer and not an abusive ticket-monger)

    Or you can leave some janky wordpress plugin to run amok on a €1/m loss-leader and post your tale of woe on LET when you come back from your holiday

    It's all good bro :)

    Thanked by 2angstrom ITLabs
  • @bikegremlin said: So, having a hobby, or even a business website on a VPS would mean you have to have someone at it practically daily? In case of planned things like a holiday, or unplanned, like ending up in a hospital for any reason - you run the risk of having it, not just taken down, but the service cancelled too?

    That's the scenario i really don't like.

    Is that a standard procedure when it comes to VPS-s?

    I think that @uptime has already put it well.

    But, yes, in short, if you run a server/VPS, you're expected to be reactive.

    That said, providers will vary in how much time they give you to react. (But you are expected to react relatively quickly.)

    Again, don't forget the context: a low-budget 1€/m VPS, paid monthly. (Although one can have a positive balance at Aruba, the price of the VPS is paid monthly.)

    Thanked by 2uptime ITLabs
  • uptimeuptime Member
    edited October 2019

    @bikegremlin - maybe think of it this way:

    Imagine you go on vacation, and leave your apartment unlocked.

    Probably it will be okay when you get back.

    But if someone up to no good finds their way in while you're gone, now all bets are off.

    Hopefully they don't set the place on fire ... maybe they just throw a party, maybe break a few windows. The cops come, shut down the party, and nail the door shut. (Maybe now it's a crime scene.)

    Now the landlord may or may not be freaking out. Tries to call you ...

    At this point our thought experiment can go in a few different directions. Maybe the anology falls apart if you have a rental agreement. But let's imagine perhaps there is a clause in that contract that allows for eviction for a certain degree of uncorrected negligence ...

    Bottom line in this scenario is it's better if you can pick up the phone to help deal with the situation.

    Or you have a good relation with the landlord so they are somehow willing to trust the problem will not happen again, and they just wait patiently for you to get back.

    In any event, this story diverges quite a bit from @jvnadr's experience with Aruba, but perhaps the general sensibility of "shit happens, deal with it" is something you can relate to if you try to picture some scenario in more real-world terms. No big surprise if Aruba doesn't care for dealing with any €1/m hassle in their castle, beyond whatever works best for their bottom line.

    Thanked by 2angstrom ITLabs
  • @uptime said:
    Or you can leave some janky wordpress plugin to run amok on a €1/m loss-leader and post your tale of woe on LET when you come back from your holiday.

    But that's the best part. Our fun begins when your holiday ends ;-)

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • @uptime said:

    Imagine you go on vacation, and leave your apartment unlocked.

    Probably it will be okay when you get back.

    But if someone up to no good finds their way in while you're gone, now all bets are off.

    Hopefully they don't set the place on fire ... maybe they just throw a party, maybe break a few windows. The cops come, shut down the party, and nail the door shut. (Maybe now it's a crime scene.)

    Now the landlord may or may not be freaking out. Tries to call you ...

    At this point our thought experiment can go in a few different directions. Maybe the anology falls apart if you have a rental agreement. But let's imagine perhaps there is a clause in that contract that allows for eviction for a certain degree of uncorrected negligence ...

    Bottom line in this scenario is it's better if you can pick up the phone to help deal with the situation.

    Or you have a good relation with the landlord so they are somehow willing to trust the problem will not happen again, and they just wait patiently for you to get back.

    Are you trying to suggest that LET should not be unlocked during Black Friday and Cyber Monday, because this place will be on fire, with some nasty furry party, and CC will loose control of this place which becomes some kind of crime scene caused by summer hosts?

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • A small variation on your analogy. I may or may not be watching LivePD.

    It's not really like an apartment because there's no physical thing that needs to be fixed so let's go with a trailer lot rental. It's also closer to accurate because you expect a certain amount of issues based on the clientele. How much depends on how much you're paying.

    uptime said: Imagine you go on vacation, and leave your apartment unlocked.

    Imagine you've just moved out of mom and dads house. You don't have much money so you get a trailer. You put all your things in your trailer and decide to reward yourself with a vacation. You lock your trailer door but it's a cheap lock that came with the trailer. Shouldn't be a problem as your neighbors seem really nice.

    Probably it will be okay when you get back.

    But if someone up to no good finds their way in while you're gone, now all bets are off.

    Hopefully they don't set the place on fire ... maybe they just throw a party, maybe break a few windows. The cops come, shut down the party, and nail the door shut. (Maybe now it's a crime scene.)

    Local crack heads see you leave so they pick the lock and setup a dope house. They have people breaking in to other trailers, addicts passed out in the streets tying up traffic, panhandlers, etc... Cops show up, arrest everyone in sight, and impound your trailer as evidence. Everything goes back to normal.

    Now the landlord may or may not be freaking out. Tries to call you ...

    The lot is paid until the end of the month so the park rep doesn't call. He does post a sign in the yard - "Crack heads. House impounded. Rent due. "

    You return and find the sign in the yard. "But I have no place to live. All my stuff is gone. What will I do?" you argue.

    "Not my problem," the park representative responds, "I only rent you the space. Go get a new trailer if you wanna stay. Oh by the way, we're raising your rent $50 and if it happens again we'll terminate your agreement."

    uptime said: Bottom line in this scenario is it's better if you can pick up the phone to help deal with the situation.

    Or you have a good relation with the landlord so they are somehow willing to trust the problem will not happen again, and they just wait patiently for you to get back

    If you've paid ahead til next month he lets you keep your empty lot. If not, he mails you an eviction notice and posts an ad. Either way, he gets paid.

    uptime said: No big surprise if Aruba doesn't care for dealing with any €1/m hassle in their castle, beyond whatever works best for their bottom line.

    Oh we're in one of those parks. Yeah, that park representative takes whatever money you paid ahead, chalks it up to "Police drama fees", and rents your lot out as the police are towing your trailer off it.

    Thanked by 3shovenose ITLabs uptime
  • shovenoseshovenose Member, Host Rep

    @skorous said:
    A small variation on your analogy. I may or may not be watching LivePD.

    Not sure how you can watch LivePD when there is COPS to watch. Unless you've already watched all of COPS, in that case, continue on good sir.

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • ITLabsITLabs Member
    edited October 2019

    @skorous said:
    A small variation on your analogy. I may or may not be watching LivePD.

    It's not really like an apartment because there's no physical thing that needs to be fixed so let's go with a trailer lot rental. It's also closer to accurate because you expect a certain amount of issues based on the clientele. How much depends on how much you're paying.

    uptime said: Imagine you go on vacation, and leave your apartment unlocked.

    That's why I always keep a backup of my most important things - underpants, beer, wife, kids, Amitz portrait and dog - in a safe place.

    Thanked by 2skorous uptime
  • Thanked by 1ITLabs
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    I see the diverse points and in particular the point that a provider must handle extremely low-priced products efficiently. So I have no problems with ArubaCloud shooting quickly and early wrt €1 VPSs.

    But all of that doesn't change the fact that any and every provider must at the very least specify the allegations well enough to allow the customer to properly react.

    But ArubaCloud did not do that - and that was OPs major complaint if I'm not mistaken.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    It's better to piss the cheap customers off so that they will go on raging on forums.

    Free advertising.

  • @uptime said:
    @bikegremlin - maybe think of it this way:

    Imagine you go on vacation, and leave your apartment unlocked.

    Probably it will be okay when you get back.

    But if someone up to no good finds their way in while you're gone, now all bets are off.

    Hopefully they don't set the place on fire ... maybe they just throw a party, maybe break a few windows. The cops come, shut down the party, and nail the door shut. (Maybe now it's a crime scene.)

    Now the landlord may or may not be freaking out. Tries to call you ...

    At this point our thought experiment can go in a few different directions. Maybe the anology falls apart if you have a rental agreement. But let's imagine perhaps there is a clause in that contract that allows for eviction for a certain degree of uncorrected negligence ...

    Bottom line in this scenario is it's better if you can pick up the phone to help deal with the situation.

    Or you have a good relation with the landlord so they are somehow willing to trust the problem will not happen again, and they just wait patiently for you to get back.

    In any event, this story diverges quite a bit from @jvnadr's experience with Aruba, but perhaps the general sensibility of "shit happens, deal with it" is something you can relate to if you try to picture some scenario in more real-world terms. No big surprise if Aruba doesn't care for dealing with any €1/m hassle in their castle, beyond whatever works best for their bottom line.

    Not arguing, looking for clarification, correct me where I'm wrong (and take all statements in "as far as I know/suppose" way):

    • I rent a VPS.
    • It gets hacked, starts doing bad stuff.
    • Provider blocks/disables it.

      Can it still do harm once it's disabled?
      If not - is there a problem provider could have if it remains in that state for weeks (or months)?

    For me it's perfectly normal to stop a rogue VPS once it gets into PMS.
    But I don't see why account should be cancelled/terminated?
    Wouldn't it be better to just keep the server off line until the client establishes contact and sees with the provider about fixing the issue? Or they stop paying monthly/yearly renewal fees - whichever comes first.

    As for the "real life" analogy, from what I could gather in OP's first post, it looks like:
    You pay rent for years, no problems with the landlord, bills, neighbours.
    Then your flat gets broken in while you're away, say some bums even set it on fire, damaging other flats as well.
    If you used good locks, it's less probable, but still possible.

    If this happens regularly - it's you. If not - it's probably just bad luck.

    What does the landlord gain by evicting a good tenant, for something that has happened beyond either of their control (landlord and the tenant)? Unless it's just an excuse to cancel a cheap deal and re-rent the appartment at a higher price. This is what it all looks like.

    I mean - any site in the world can get hacked. Not all very easily, but with enough bad luck, or if someone really clever and experienced sets their mind to it (for whatever reason), I doubt anyone can prevent that.

  • @jsg said: But all of that doesn't change the fact that any and every provider must at the very least specify the allegations well enough to allow the customer to properly react.

    But ArubaCloud did not do that - and that was OPs major complaint if I'm not mistaken.

    The OP has since conceded that he overreacted.

    Aruba basically said: "We've suspended your server because of abuse that we've detected. Please get in touch with us for the details and to discuss the matter."

    Once the OP got in touch with them, they told him what they knew and they took it from there together.

    I just don't understand why all the outrage about how Aruba handled the matter when we're talking about a 1€/m VPS. (If you want a more personalized treatment, then be prepared to pay much more.)

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Being outraged by trivial things is how people get on nowadays.

    They have to easily get outraged in order to forget about the pitfall that their life is.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited October 2019

    @angstrom said:
    Aruba basically said: "We've suspended your server because of abuse that we've detected. Please get in touch with us for the details and to discuss the matter."

    Once the OP got in touch with them, they told him what they knew and they took it from there together.

    I just don't understand why all the outrage about how Aruba handled the matter when we're talking about a 1€/m VPS. (If you want a more personalized treatment, then be prepared to pay much more.)

    Sorry, no.

    OP quoted Aruba:
    Dear Customer, activity that is non-compliant with the Aruba acceptable use Policy has been detected in the server "nameofmyserverhere" In accordance with article 11 of the contract, the Service has been suspended; therefore, please verify this issue and take the necessary actions to check also the security of the applications. Please get back to us within the next 72 hrs, so we can verify the possibility of reactivating the Service. We remind you that by failing to reply, article 13.1 of the contract will be applied and the Service will be cancelled.

    OP commented:
    Just this, no other information. ...

    and

    A second email, some minutes later, was no enlighten more of the first one...

    (Quote) The user AWI-xxxx has been suspended. The related resources were disabled on the 24/10/2019 at 08:21.

    There may be an overreaction part but what I referred to is something different -> ArubaCloud provided extremely poor and useless info and did not properly explain the event nor their reaction. Adding insult to injury rather than providing proper information they disabled his account.

    Again, I have no problem with Aruba shooting early and quickly with ultra-cheap services. I do however consider it problematic, unproductive, and legally questionable to not provide proper information.

    I therefore stick to my position -> Stay away from ArubaCloud!

  • @jsg said:

    @angstrom said:
    Aruba basically said: "We've suspended your server because of abuse that we've detected. Please get in touch with us for the details and to discuss the matter."

    Once the OP got in touch with them, they told him what they knew and they took it from there together.

    I just don't understand why all the outrage about how Aruba handled the matter when we're talking about a 1€/m VPS. (If you want a more personalized treatment, then be prepared to pay much more.)

    Sorry, no.

    "Sorry, no" what? What did I say that was false?

    OP quoted Aruba:
    Dear Customer, activity that is non-compliant with the Aruba acceptable use Policy has been detected in the server "nameofmyserverhere" In accordance with article 11 of the contract, the Service has been suspended; therefore, please verify this issue and take the necessary actions to check also the security of the applications. Please get back to us within the next 72 hrs, so we can verify the possibility of reactivating the Service. We remind you that by failing to reply, article 13.1 of the contract will be applied and the Service will be cancelled.

    OP commented:
    Just this, no other information. ...

    and

    A second email, some minutes later, was no enlighten more of the first one...

    (Quote) The user AWI-xxxx has been suspended. The related resources were disabled on the 24/10/2019 at 08:21.

    There may be an overreaction part but what I referred to is something different -> ArubaCloud provided extremely poor and useless info and did not properly explain the event nor their reaction.

    Yes, we've all already acknowledged that they didn't properly explain the event in that email. This isn't a new observation. (It was an automated email.)

    Adding insult to injury rather than providing proper information they disabled his account.

    Yeah, not so great, I agree, but this may be part of their overreaction procedure. Perhaps they don't want the client to buy a new service before the issues surrounding the suspended service are resolved, and disabling the account is the quickest way for them to accomplish this. We don't know.

    Again, I have no problem with Aruba shooting early and quickly with ultra-cheap services. I do however consider it problematic, unproductive, and legally questionable to not provide proper information.

    Again, yes, not in the email (not a new observation), but once the OP opened a ticket, they did provide the information.

    I therefore stick to my position -> Stay away from ArubaCloud!

    I have the feeling that no one (not even the OP) has given up their 1€/m service because of this thread or because of your injunction written in bold. But thanks for your injunction written in bold nevertheless.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @angstrom said:
    Again, yes, not in the email (not a new observation), but once the OP opened a ticket, they did provide the information.

    First inform, then shoot. Simple rule.

    Now, before anyone says that they couldn't know the details before looking up (once a ticket was opened): yes, maybe but how would it be acceptable to cut someone off based on not yet knowing?

    So, again, simple rule: before cutting someone off, be sure to know the reason and to tell it.

    I have the feeling that no one (not even the OP) has given up their 1€/m service because of this thread or because of your injunction written in bold. But thanks for your injunction written in bold nevertheless.

    I don't care. I'm not here to harm ArubaCloud. The reason for providing a TL;DR in bold is within LET, not within ArubaCloud.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • ArubaCloudArubaCloud Member, Host Rep

    @jvnadr said:
    Maybe I was a little over reacting, because it won't took long for them to reply with the actual issue. If so, my apologies to Aruba (here you are, apologies as LTniger asked!)
    I just still think that there has to be a headline with the reason of suspension on the initial email, not disabling all the servers and the account (except if the client is doing this constantly) and get rid of this 72 hours rule.

    @FAT32 I think is fair to alter the thread title with something like "resolved issue" to reflect it, if you can.

    Apology accepted, @jvnadr and thanks for the suggestions. We really appreciate your feedback, it will help us to handle this kind of issue in a better way in the future ;)

    We fully understand the inconvenience that account suspension has caused you, but these measures are taken to ensure a high standard of security on our servers.

    We are happy that you finally solved this issue with the support of our Customer Care.

    Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you!

    Thanked by 2DP jvnadr
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