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India 10 years jail for using BitCoins - possible solution for web hosts? - Page 2
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India 10 years jail for using BitCoins - possible solution for web hosts?

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Comments

  • XiNiXXiNiX Member, Host Rep

    @ViridWeb said:

    @HostEONS said:

    @ViridWeb said:
    India to submitted a draft to banning bitcoin permanently. It has provision of imprisonment up to 10 Years if some one trade/hold/transact/use any kind of Crypto currencies.

    My question is what's the next step for Indian web hosting providers who use Bitcoin as a payment method.
    Because with this 10 Years of Jail term it's totally impossible to use Bitcoin anymore.

    I know it will take some time to make this draft an actual law..But....

    Alternate payment method such as PayPal will not help. Also In India no banks allows payment gateways to allow hosting providers to accept Credit Card payment from International clients. (I have contacted multiple gateways for this issue confirmation)

    For example our almost 80% clients pay through bitcoin. So if we stop accepting bitcoins from today then maybe we will loose a huge number of clients after this month end.

    Setup an offshore company like in Singapore or HK

    Payment gateway is also not a big issue, try to contact your bank directly (HDFC or ICICI, atleast i got it approved like 7-8 years ago though not using it anymore) if you have good relationship with them they will approve it, or contact RazorPay I think they even approve it for web hosting companies on case by case basis

    Also for one of my Indian subsidiaries i got payment gateway approved by PayUMoney but that was long ago before I moved my business to Singapore

    Even 2CO approves Indian Web Hosting companies.

    Registering company in Singapore is a good option.
    Can you please share the procedue or any service provider who can provie the service to register company and help me on TAX filling as well?

    Also Is it possible to register company in Singapore for a single person or I need a partner or even a partner who is resident of that country?
    It will be great if I can register the company in Singapore with only one Director or share holder which is me.

    Also Do I need a physical address or some service can provide a virtual address?

    How you registered you company there?

    Try Atlas :smile:

    https://stripe.com/atlas

  • ViridWebViridWeb Member, Host Rep

    @ITLabs said:
    @HostEONS suggestions are very good and valuable.

    But, before going Stripe Atlas please consider this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18870886

    If you wanna follow the US path it will be more economical to open an LLC, IMHO. You can form a Wyoming LLC for about $150, just google "Wyoming Registered Agent Service".

    As for the bank solution you could try Mercury.

    Yes we already knew about Stripe Atlas
    But the only think we hesitate is about Taxation in USA/Delaware for LLC
    Either we have to find someone for Taxes or we will go with Estonian E-Residency program
    Hope that will help us out

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @BlaZe said:
    On one side we are preparing to send a man on the moon & Mars, and here the idiots who do not understand how a cryptocurrency works are advocating for its ban.

    Drama for this week.

    EDIT:
    by "here" I mean the panel who has taken the decision.

    I mean, the bitcoin memers keep going on about "TO THE MOON".

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1BlaZe
  • ViridWebViridWeb Member, Host Rep

    @Cdoe said:

    @ViridWeb said:
    Can't registered company in Estonia as it's a EU country and we will have to pay VAT for servers. Right now if we buy a server for 100 euro we sale at 120 Euro but if we are registered in Estonia then we have to buy the server for 120 euro including VAT.

    That's not how VAT works

    Then whot it will works?
    If I register a company in Estonia then it's a EU company
    And if I bought a server from another EU company at 100 Euro then I have to pay VAT 20% and the cost will 120 Euro
    Then I have to increase the price to sale at least 140 Euro to my customers
    And if the customer from EU then The price will be 140 Euro + 20% more VAT

  • malekmalek Member, Host Rep
    edited July 2019

    You can't just register a company in some 3rd country, especially if you are resident in India - you will trigger CFC (controlled foreign corporation) rules. Move out or deal with it.

    Thanked by 1BlaZe
  • edfoxedfox Member

    @Neoon said:
    no one is going to put someone into jail for buying a hammer.

    oi! boi do 'ye hev a license for that hammor?

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @edfox said:

    @Neoon said:
    no one is going to put someone into jail for buying a hammer.

    oi! boi do 'ye hev a license for that hammor?

    Thanked by 2taubin uptime
  • agentmishraagentmishra Member, Host Rep

    @ViridWeb said:
    India to submitted a draft to banning bitcoin permanently. It has provision of imprisonment up to 10 Years if some one trade/hold/transact/use any kind of Crypto currencies.

    bitcoin was never legalized in India

    My question is what's the next step for Indian web hosting providers who use Bitcoin as a payment method.

    not sure how many of us use it, but people prefer other means as well

    Because with this 10 Years of Jail term it's totally impossible to use Bitcoin anymore.

    I know it will take some time to make this draft an actual law..But....

    let law framing take its course, and we concentrate on making a better providers experience

    Alternate payment method such as PayPal will not help. Also In India no banks allows payment gateways to allow hosting providers to accept Credit Card payment from International clients. (I have contacted multiple gateways for this issue confirmation)

    indian banks do allow payment gateways, and also, apart from paypal, there are many other 3rd party options.
    in case we wish to do some money laundering activities, why Indian banks, i beleive no bank would help us

    For example our almost 80% clients pay through bitcoin. So if we stop accepting bitcoins from today then maybe we will loose a huge number of clients after this month end.

    use other methods, i have never seen people wanting or leaving a service for crypto payments

  • Have you not tried 2co?

    There's always a cost of doing business.

  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    @ViridWeb said:
    Common guys please don't talk about guns..
    This is a serious issue for millions of Indian service providers and it doesn't matter that your are a hosting provider or not.

    What if one is in the business of guns? Forex law applies for them also.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    @HostEONS said:

    @vyas11 said:
    @HostEONS that post is a keeper :-)

    May I add LUT also for service provided to clients are who are outside the country and no legal entity in India?

    Added later: basically it is a matter of weighing cost of added reporting and burden of compliance versus any potential business revenue lost

    He won't need LUT for that as LUT is needed only if you are doing exports and don't want to pay GST first and then apply for refund.

    In this case his company will be a US or Singapore entity hence GST won't be applicable so LUT is not needed.

    Though if he setups another company in India to withdraw money from his US company by showing it as expense like server management services or customer support, I mean since his US company is basically a virtual company and everything managed from India so he may want to show his Indian company as vendor (Customer support etc..) for US company, in that case he will need to get LUT for his Indian company.

    One can even withdraw profits in the form of salary but that will attract Advance Tax in US which require more paper work and returns and will also need to apply for SSN Alternative (Forgot what's it's called, it's for non-US residents for IRS purpose, IRS provides it), if he gets it as dividend, then it will attract a much higher tax in India and also corporate tax in US

    So basically his US company won't need LUT or any such thing.

    Agreed. But unless one has a secondary or second business that pays for the Indian operations incl salaries, commissions, and fixed costs, at a certain point in time one will have to withdraw the funds received from International business.

    In any case, you seem to know what you are doing. In the coming days if an opportunity presents would be happy to discuss business. Otherwise, will be happy to hire your services for business advice! Cheers.

    Thanked by 2vimalware HostEONS
  • CdoeCdoe Member

    @ViridWeb said:

    @Cdoe said:

    @ViridWeb said:
    Can't registered company in Estonia as it's a EU country and we will have to pay VAT for servers. Right now if we buy a server for 100 euro we sale at 120 Euro but if we are registered in Estonia then we have to buy the server for 120 euro including VAT.

    That's not how VAT works

    Then whot it will works?
    If I register a company in Estonia then it's a EU company
    And if I bought a server from another EU company at 100 Euro then I have to pay VAT 20% and the cost will 120 Euro
    Then I have to increase the price to sale at least 140 Euro to my customers
    And if the customer from EU then The price will be 140 Euro + 20% more VAT

    No, you don't pay the VAT at b2b. Only your customer does, unless he's running a business too.

  • BlaZeBlaZe Member, Host Rep
    edited July 2019

    btw, the bill isn't final. The Minister heading the committee was reshuffled (after he announced the draft bill) to another ministry and a new minister has been appointed (perhaps the predecessor had no understanding of crypto-technology and was just going to fuck with innovation by banning it?)

    Funny thing is, the Minister is now going to retire voluntarily... (butthurt maybe? as he was moved out to a different department)

    The Minister of State Mr. Anurag Thakur says his ministry has Open Glass Door Policy and will hence look on the crypto issue with recommendations from the industry stake holders (which is positive!)

  • vyas11vyas11 Member

    @BlaZe said:
    btw, the bill isn't final. The Minister heading the committee was reshuffled (after he announced the draft bill) to another ministry and a new minister has been appointed (perhaps the predecessor had no understanding of crypto-technology and was just going to fuck with innovation by banning it?)

    Funny thing is, the Minister is now going to retire voluntarily... (butthurt maybe? as he was moved out to a different department.

    (Former) Finance secretary. Bureaucrat not politician . :-) He leaves for an unrelated reason.

  • estnocestnoc Member, Patron Provider
    edited July 2019

    @sanvit said:
    What if you legally register your company on another country? For example Estonia provides digital citizenship (or whatever it's called) which allows you to legally register company in the EU. You can use your current company as gateway to provide the infrastructure (e.g. servers, support, etc.) and get paied by the estonian company, while the estonian company collects funds and provide services to end users. That way you will be able to bypass the payment processing limits and bitcoin bans although that may add some more tax and other legal issues.

    Edit : HostEONS already mentioned this :(

    with Estonian digital citizenship, you cant open here bank account nomore. its like that since last October already. banks are refusing to open accounts for foreigners who are not actually living in Estonia. even those bank accounts that were opened for e-residents earlier, many of those bank accounts got closed too.

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • FHRFHR Member, Host Rep

    malek said: You can't just register a company in some 3rd country

    Why not? You usually can assuming you follow all appropriate laws.

    estnoc said: with Estonian digital citizenship, you cant open here bank account nomore. its like that since last October already. banks are refusing to open accounts for foreigners who are not actually living in Estonia. even those bank accounts that were opened for e-residents earlier, many of those bank accounts got closed too.

    IMO the e-citizenship is pretty much useless.

  • BlaZeBlaZe Member, Host Rep

    @vyas11 said:
    (Former) Finance secretary. Bureaucrat not politician . :-) He leaves for an unrelated reason.

    I'm pretty much sure he was reshuffled (more like kicked out) for a reason (banning crypto) as there are many influential people who do not want crypto to be banned in India. One call to his boss and it's done ;)

  • @ViridWeb said:
    India to submitted a draft to banning bitcoin permanently. It has provision of imprisonment up to 10 Years if some one trade/hold/transact/use any kind of Crypto currencies.

    My question is what's the next step for Indian web hosting providers who use Bitcoin as a payment method.
    Because with this 10 Years of Jail term it's totally impossible to use Bitcoin anymore.

    I know it will take some time to make this draft an actual law..But....

    Alternate payment method such as PayPal will not help. Also In India no banks allows payment gateways to allow hosting providers to accept Credit Card payment from International clients. (I have contacted multiple gateways for this issue confirmation)

    For example our almost 80% clients pay through bitcoin. So if we stop accepting bitcoins from today then maybe we will loose a huge number of clients after this month end.

    really sorry to hear that. bitcoin is one my clients payment method

  • try4lontalktry4lontalk Member
    edited August 2019

    @ViridWeb said:
    India to submitted a draft to banning bitcoin permanently. It has provision of imprisonment up to 10 Years if some one trade/hold/transact/use any kind of Crypto currencies.......

    I would wonder how Indian government will be able to implement the law if it passes. Especially for those just holding cryptos but not trading them after the bill becomes effective.

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