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[MXroute] Alive in 2018 and giving you 2 years of service for $30 (recurring) - Page 2
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[MXroute] Alive in 2018 and giving you 2 years of service for $30 (recurring)

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  • @jar said:
    Btw if anyone likes stats, this is first iteration of public monitoring on our in-house MC replacement: http://stats.mxroute.com/d/QvKnwwKik/mxroute-outbound?refresh=10s&orgId=1

    (Yeah that much of our outbound really is spam, so many forwarders and catch-all accounts)

    What's the bounce rate for the 70% that passes your outbound, in-house spam filter?

  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2018

    @sleddog said:

    @jar said:
    Btw if anyone likes stats, this is first iteration of public monitoring on our in-house MC replacement: http://stats.mxroute.com/d/QvKnwwKik/mxroute-outbound?refresh=10s&orgId=1

    (Yeah that much of our outbound really is spam, so many forwarders and catch-all accounts)

    What's the bounce rate for the 70% that passes your outbound, in-house spam filter?

    I'd like to graph that next but also add a matching table of the codes. Don't have the latest figures on the fly but the majority of it has been bad recipient on observation. The more significant concern for me right now has been defers from Yahoo. It appears that they want me to think it's based on IP rep, but seems to be something else as I'll get a defer and a delivery within a single second.

    Google and Microsoft though... The ones I always fear, have been taking very well to the content that gets through.

  • letrocksletrocks Member
    edited August 2018

    @louis_lau said:
    I answered this above :). Instead of buying it and doing the manual transfer, then cancelling the old package. I can just change it for you. Only condition is that you due date will be moved to today. So you'll "lose" however many months you had left until the due date. IMO this option is easier for you and it has the same end result for us financially.

    @louis_lau
    I want to order this service. I can let go off remaining of the service for the Classic service. However will I lose any emails? Will I lose any of the email accounts and aliases created over there via Visat CP?

    Currently VestaCP is disabled so can't even tell how many of them are there.

  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider

    @letrocks said:

    @louis_lau said:
    I answered this above :). Instead of buying it and doing the manual transfer, then cancelling the old package. I can just change it for you. Only condition is that you due date will be moved to today. So you'll "lose" however many months you had left until the due date. IMO this option is easier for you and it has the same end result for us financially.

    @louis_lau
    I want to order this service. I can let go off remaining of the service for the Classic service. However will I lose any emails? Will I lose any of the email accounts and aliases created over there via Visat CP?

    Currently VestaCP is disabled so can't even tell how many of them are there.

    Vesta is up, let me know if it's giving you any trouble.

    Thanked by 1letrocks
  • letrocks said: Will I lose any of the email accounts and aliases created over there via Visat CP?

    We're not doing migrations between the VestaCP and the CPanel servers sadly.
    You can of course order the service and migrate it manually yourself.

    You can add the domains/accounts/aliases by hand, for something simple to migrate the actual email I'd recommend imapsync.

  • @jar said:
    Vesta is up, let me know if it's giving you any trouble.

    Thank you. I will pull out all the emails I need and then place an order. Thanks for the awesome service, I hope this time there won't be as much of an issue with cPanel. :)

    Thanked by 1jar
  • letrocksletrocks Member
    edited August 2018

    @jar @louis_lau I have requested cancellation of existing service. I want to place a new service with the same domain as primary domain, but it won't let me until the other service is cancelled. Need help there.

    I used some other domain name to register the service. So no help is needed to order the service.

  • @jar said:

    >

    So we're looking at first iteration of this logic so one thing I should stress is that it's existence and method are both subject to change. Right now this is meant to be the guard rail on the edge of the bridge, not the police car chasing you down. A minimal measure to prevent catastrophe while I work to build the second iteration which can be much more intelligent. You can find the first iteration here: https://gist.github.com/mxroute/93d0e6e19e6ea8c8f05d743a2ef4b505

    OK, so follow up question, since it would appear that internal MXroute -> MXroute email would count toward my hourly quota.

    You say "per account per hour". Forward emails currently count as an "account" in the portal. Say I have [email protected] and [email protected] and they both forward to [email protected], would I need to have outbound for 300 per account to be blocked? Or would it be 300 total for my MXroute account per hour to qualify?

    Again, just checking limits. Certainly not a spammer and don't even send out email blasts using the service. Just trying to get an idea of when/where I could possibly be suspended for spike usage.

    (BTW, thank you for addressing the part of looking out for the customer. You've been nothing but helpful with the service. I'm only trying to limit some "unforeseen" outage due to a spike versus trying to circumvent a perfectly reasonable rate limit system.)

  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider

    rpollestad said: You say "per account per hour". Forward emails currently count as an "account" in the portal. Say I have [email protected] and [email protected] and they both forward to [email protected], would I need to have outbound for 300 per account to be blocked? Or would it be 300 total for my MXroute account per hour to qualify?

    Forwarding will actually bypass the way I'm filtering these right now. I imagine that would continue with the next iteration, as an inbound attack is required to cause a forwarding attack, and then the forwarding is the symptom rather than the cause of a problem.

  • Regarding the sending limits, it sounds reasonable to allow whitelisting a specific address or two, maybe on confirmation from the receiving address if you want to be paranoid.

    Yes for a service change like dropping mailchannels, there should be an email notice rather than asking people to monitor twitter. We're VPS users and are used to getting service notifications now and then. If you're sending fewer than 2-4 of them a year I wouldn't worry about it too much. It gets annoying if there are a lot.

  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider

    willie said: Regarding the sending limits, it sounds reasonable to allow whitelisting a specific address or two, maybe on confirmation from the receiving address if you want to be paranoid.

    If there's a need we can look at it. Like I said above, this is the guard rail on the bridge, not the police car chasing you down.

    willie said: Yes for a service change like dropping mailchannels, there should be an email notice rather than asking people to monitor twitter

    For what reason exactly?

  • jar said: For what reason exactly?

    Why email? It's a service change that made some users modify their workflow, from what I can tell. Certainly telling people to monitor twitter is annoying. If the stuff you post there is important enough that users have to monitor it to keep their services working, you should email it too.

    Conversely if your twitter posts aren't that important (e.g. they're the usual marketing updates that are a perfectly good use of twitter) you don't need to tell anyone to monitor them. They can do so if they like that sort of thing.

  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2018

    willie said: It's a service change that made some users modify their workflow

    That is not correct.

    willie said: Certainly telling people to monitor twitter is annoying

    I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not sorry though for finding the time to iterate on the product or for finding a way that I can be transparent and productive at the same time.

    willie said: If the stuff you post there is important enough that users have to monitor it to keep their services working, you should email it too

    Well then they shouldn't do business with a small business. I can either fix problems or talk about them, I cannot write press releases and fix servers. That is why I report very important things on Twitter on a regular basis. Should anything ever require customer action, then I will send them an email just as I have every time before. Thanks for your interest.

  • jar said: For what reason exactly?

    Don't take it bad, but Willie do have a point here. After all, you are a mail provider, so, send a mass mail to your clients about any change in your infrastructure would be a logic move and it is not need more time/effort from you compared to a twitter post. Isn't that just an action in WHMCS? Or you could simple send an email with a quote like "check our twitter account for changes in our infrastructure". It's just that you are usually very transparent and emailing would help to this. On the end, it's your decision...

    Anyway, if abandoning mailchannels won't affect service and deliverability, then, the real clients won't bother for the change.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2018

    Fully transparent, I just think LET sometimes has a culture of demanding excess action and no knowledge of what the other 99% want that aren't commenting, and that it's my job to balance those things. Appreciate the feedback though.

  • Mark_O_PoloMark_O_Polo Member
    edited August 2018

    @jar said:

    For what reason exactly?

    Well, I don't think anyone cares in the end if the mail gets through. But the majority bought it specifically because of the mailchannels delivery and the belief that they are (were) the best. **Edit: Obviously, Gmail and a few other mega players offer mail with arguably superior delivery but these exist at different price points.

    Going from mailchannels to a homebrew solution it would seem reasonable to have an email sent to all customers as this is a "fundamental change" in the core product.

    I wouldn't throw it back on LET being demanding. I would say it's a difference of perspective, communication styles, and the desire to get what you paid for. Or, at a minimum to know what you are actually getting....

    Not everyone wants to read a twitter feed were 90% of the posts are non-relevant.

    **Edit: Just wanted to keep this positive and mention that I wish you success with the delivery system.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jar said: I just think LET sometimes has a culture of demanding excess action and no knowledge of what the other 99% want that aren't commenting

    As of me, it's just that I don't use/follow twitter a lot (almost none) and there are several people that are not into deep in social networks. But that's me.
    BTW, I am really tempted to grab the biannually offer, especially if in the visible future you are going to enable the relay option! :)

    Thanked by 1jar
  • angstromangstrom Member, Moderator

    @jvnadr said: BTW, I am really tempted to grab the biannually offer, especially if in the visible future you are going to enable the relay option! :)

    Just to second the relay option if/when it's feasible. This would be a real added value to the product, I think. :-)

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2018

    Thank you friends for your feedback.

    On the topic of sending emails for product changes, I'm going to stick with keeping that to things that require customer action. However, I'm going to implement something and let customers know it's there: https://headwayapp.co/mxroute-changelog

    On the topic of a relay service, I think I may be closer to ready than even I realize, so keep an eye out :)

  • jar said: It's a service change that made some users modify their workflow

    That is not correct.

    Of course it's correct, look at the post just a little bit further up the thread:

    Jonchun said: My sent-emails started bouncing one day because my SPF records didn't match (I previously had it configured to the mailchannels relay)

    Also I remember one of mxroute's advertised features (I never used it myself) was that users could log into mailchannels for some purposes (tickets?). Whatever that was, if they used it, it was part of their workflow before and now it isn't. So that's a workflow change.

    jar said: Well then they shouldn't do business with a small business.

    Oh come on, every 10-cent VPS host around here manages to send an email if they have a planned service outage or whatever. I get an email from mxroute every month saying I've gotten $0.00 in affiliate commissions that month. There appears to be no way to turn off those emails. I saw the thread saying the affiliate program had stopped and I thought hooray, finally those emails will stop, but I got another one a day or so later iirc. If you're really worrying about clogging customer mailboxes, I'd start with those, rather than hesitating to send stuff that's actually informative.

    headwayapp.co, is that another site we're supposed to follow besides twitter? Please, stop. Put everything on your own site on a page with an RSS feed, linked to the home page, if you can't find it in yourself to send emails. There is something called "wordpress" that some people use for that.

    I can either fix problems or talk about them

    In the real world, you have to do both.

  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2018

    willie said: Of course it's correct, look at the post just a little bit further up the thread:

    No, it's not. I included in every single signup email since the beginning of the service what to use as the SPF record. If someone went rogue, that has nothing to do with me or MXroute. That has to do with them. I certainly don't email 3,000+ customers because one might have went rogue. I've changed the outbound path many times even since adopting MC as a vendor, for example when they had outages, and I've always kept the correct SPF record up to date. I realize that you, for some strange reason, want to paint me in a negative light today. That is your burden though.

    willie said: Also I remember one of mxroute's advertised features (I never used it myself) was that users could log into mailchannels for some purposes (tickets?). Whatever that was, if they used it, it was part of their workflow before and now it isn't. So that's a workflow change.

    They could click a link that was in the bounce emails to mark spam as not spam. It would be ignored by MailChannels entirely, and served the same purpose as the Turbo button on home computers.

    willie said: Oh come on, every 10-cent VPS host around here manages to send an email if they have a planned service outage or whatever.

    Nothing in this thread refers to a planned service outage.

    willie said: I get an email from mxroute every month saying I've gotten $0.00 in affiliate commissions that month.

    Congratulations, you found the counter point. The counter point to "I can't sit around typing out emails when I need to be fixing problems because I run a small business that doesn't have a full staff" is that WHMCS automatically sends you an email every month.

    willie said: I saw the thread saying the affiliate program had stopped and I thought hooray, finally those emails will stop, but I got another one a day or so later iirc.

    You could ask me why instead of just trying to take a dump on me, but that doesn't seem to be your goal here today.

    willie said: If you're really worrying about clogging customer mailboxes, I'd start with those

    There are 328 users subscribed to the affiliate program receiving an email every month that they opted into, and that I do not have to stop and type out when dealing with issues. There are 3,371 active accounts at MXroute. I do not send them emails when there is nothing required for them to continue receiving quality email service. I'm fully aware that you think this great accomplishment is a negative, and that I should go around apologizing and begging my customers to leave me. That isn't my problem though, and frankly it's weird that you think it's yours. I'm proud to have completed what I set out to do to keep the service alive and sustainable, so that I could continue to give my customers the best service that I can.

    willie said: headwayapp.co, is that another site we're supposed to follow besides twitter? Please, stop. Put everything on your own site on a page with an RSS feed, linked to the home page, if you can't find it in yourself to send emails. There is something called "wordpress" that some people use for that.

    I get it, you hate everything and it's everyone else's fault. That's why this is the last conversation I'll be engaging you in. The next time you want to sit around and overly criticize someone else just to do it, maybe you should politely ask them questions in a PM instead of doing everything in your power to take a dump on their offer thread. There's a difference between giving feedback and assuming you know everything about someone else's life and business, and therefore are justified in telling everyone else what they should be doing. One is friendly, the other is just rude. I'm not sure when you decided to become that, but not my problem anymore.

    willie said: In the real world, you have to do both.

    That's why I do. I use Twitter. I don't know what entitles you to be so rude, but if it's money please open a request for a refund and I will get that settled immediately.

  • angstromangstrom Member, Moderator

    I think that ordinary customers of mxroute.com -- probably the great majority -- signed up because they want reliable mail delivery and reception, and they're not especially interested in how this is done/implemented. If @jar had sent out an email about the said infrastructural change to everyone, the email may very well have suggested to ordinary customers that they may have to worry about something (for why an email if not because of something that they may have to worry about?), which may have resulted in (ultimately) useless queries via tickets, which (I imagine) is the last thing that @jar wanted to see. If one doesn't want to suggest to ordinary customers that they may have to worry about something, then the best strategy may be to not mention the topic in an email in the first place. It's a communicational strategy, one that won't necessarily please everyone (as we've seen), but it may be the preferred one if the goal is to not inadvertently make ordinary customers worry needlessly.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • Jar, Willie, two of the best providers in LET are having quality conversations.
    And it's time to end it here.

  • angstromangstrom Member, Moderator

    @yongsiklee said:
    Jar, Willie, two of the best providers in LET are having quality conversations.

    I didn't realize that @willie was a provider.

  • @angstrom said:

    @yongsiklee said:
    Jar, Willie, two of the best providers in LET are having quality conversations.

    I didn't realize that @willie was a provider.

    Sorry, I was drunk when writing it. I still am though.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • @yongsiklee said:

    @angstrom said:

    @yongsiklee said:
    Jar, Willie, two of the best providers in LET are having quality conversations.

    I didn't realize that @willie was a provider.

    Sorry, I was drunk when writing it. I still am though.

    I totally agree with my point though. It is a quality conversation.

  • definitely interested in your relay progress

    btw @jarland in your opinion, what is better spamassasin stack or newer solution like rspamd?

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2018

    MeMyselfandLinux said: btw @jarland in your opinion, what is better spamassasin stack or newer solution like rspamd?

    It's incredible how much more capable rspamd has been. That's what I'm running on the outbound filter. Tiny memory footprint, almost no CPU. This as opposed to perl... the enemy of resources. It has actually been better for me than SpamAssassin + ClamAV (with SaneSecurity signatures) at detecting legit spam.

  • Though I agree with @willie on the communication part, I have to admit that mail delivery has improved lately, mainly towards Outlook / Hotmail. If this is due to the in-house solution then bravo!

    Thanked by 2jar s3wd0ugh
  • @jar, would it be possible to upgrade from a 10GB/10$ yearly plan? Only asking cause I would pay more after all (not really gonna use all that space :P)

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