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Your opinion regarding mxroute.com

12346

Comments

  • @MikePT said:

    Nekki said: Do you have a dev server to try the stuff on, rather than doing it straight onto prod?

    It's editing a simple html file, and remove the function there. No major science.

    What difference does that make?

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran

    @Nekki said:

    @MikePT said:

    Nekki said: Do you have a dev server to try the stuff on, rather than doing it straight onto prod?

    It's editing a simple html file, and remove the function there. No major science.

    What difference does that make?

    It's literally, backup up a 2kb file, what bad could happen there, when it has no interaction with dbs or isn't a binary for anything?

    If you need to create a dev environment to edit an html file where you could backup the file in 1s, then man, surely things do take time to change there.

    Such change has no impact in anything else.

  • @jarland said:

    As for the change, I have no problem with it if it doesn't generate support tickets complaining about it. If it does, I'd roll it back.

    >

    Just make sure to write a KB article about this change. Because if not, the chances of getting tickets from clients that will see this for the first time will be high.

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran

    @nqservices said:

    @jarland said:

    As for the change, I have no problem with it if it doesn't generate support tickets complaining about it. If it does, I'd roll it back.

    >

    Just make sure to write a KB article about this change. Because if not, the chances of getting tickets from clients that will see this for the first time will be high.

    Sure thing, valid point.

  • WSSWSS Member

    @MikePT said:

    @nqservices said:

    @jarland said:

    As for the change, I have no problem with it if it doesn't generate support tickets complaining about it. If it does, I'd roll it back.

    >

    Just make sure to write a KB article about this change. Because if not, the chances of getting tickets from clients that will see this for the first time will be high.

    Sure thing, valid point.

    ...because people who use CPanel know what a KB is.

  • @MikePT said:

    @Nekki said:

    @MikePT said:

    Nekki said: Do you have a dev server to try the stuff on, rather than doing it straight onto prod?

    It's editing a simple html file, and remove the function there. No major science.

    What difference does that make?

    It's literally, backup up a 2kb file, what bad could happen there, when it has no interaction with dbs or isn't a binary for anything?

    If you need to create a dev environment to edit an html file where you could backup the file in 1s, then man, surely things do take time to change there.

    Such change has no impact in anything else.

    That mindset is why I still have a job in the industry, I reckon.

    Thanked by 1brueggus
  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran
    edited January 2018

    Nekki said: That mindset is why I still have a job in the industry, I reckon.

    Which is, as per your description, a job only required to monitor the DevOps and make sure they don't ruin things. Which I've never done, in 10 years managing HA setups in AWS.

    This is a basic change, a backup of a single file that takes 1s, and a minor change in the html file that has absolutely no security issues, nor it's linked to anything else.
    You're free to judge how you control your DevOps, I'm free to judge how I implement basic stuff, that requires no dev environment to test. It'd only add further delay to edit a single file that's barely accessed, and can make no changes or ruin anything.
    It's not like I'm modifying VPC's @ AWS. Note: You can't backup those. You need to know what you're doing, or else, pff, app has no network connectivity. Now, I know what I'm doing here.

    But, I guess your mindset is just blaming someone or something, while you're the only professional.

    Enough talking about this.

  • Hate to say it I'm with @nekki on this one, and I have a big risk appetite. I run an agile DevOps team, we move changes into live all the time, it doesn't take any more time to make a change in Dev/Staging before pushing it to live. It's not about blame, it's about stability for your customers and users.

    And given that you have removed a feature that I use. I understand the concerns of others here about admins not having access to users mailboxes, but I look after customers who like me being able to log into their accounts and we have a trusted relationship, this link was much easier for me than having to keep track of users passwords...

    This feature has now been removed for me and was one of the things that I used regularly.

  • sureiamsureiam Member
    edited January 2018

    @MikePT said:
    @nqservices, @willie:

    https://i.gyazo.com/94d85590960771866199675b7abe3513.mp4

    The function to authenticate is no longer present. There's still a way to access it, but that would be pretty advanced (not tested, but would be very complicated to). This way I edited the template and removed the auth token, the hidden form submitting it and I'd say it's secure enough.
    As we do not provide File Manager access, the admin doesn't have access to your email.

    This has been implemented in London server, I'll need to discuss with Jarland if he wants me to implement this in all our servers.

    WTF... And where does this leave the clients that aren't reselling the services or giving them out to random people to use and possibly abuse?!

    This is beyond annoying. These two dickweeds come in here and complain about something that any decent user who's using the service for their own personal or business use and NOT RESELLING or giving away would appreciate as a feature. Which is to access ALL OF MY OWN EMAIL INBOXES easily, and we now have to complicate that? What if someone has a ton of inboxes for different use cases and wants to shuffle through them quickly?

    This blows. I don't like this "feature", furthermore I don't think a service that has deals for $very litle or $pretty little a year should be pandering to individuals that want to take the account and give it away for free to strangers or sell it to "clients". Especially clients that wouldn't trust them as admin!! It's priced to be used for ones own business or personal needs. Not to be given out or sold for cents on the dollar to individuals that you need to assure you're not accessing their stuff.

    WTF @jarland ?!

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran
    edited January 2018

    @michaels said:
    Hate to say it I'm with @nekki on this one, and I have a big risk appetite. I run an agile DevOps team, we move changes into live all the time, it doesn't take any more time to make a change in Dev/Staging before pushing it to live. It's not about blame, it's about stability for your customers and users.

    And given that you have removed a feature that I use. I understand the concerns of others here about admins not having access to users mailboxes, but I look after customers who like me being able to log into their accounts and we have a trusted relationship, this link was much easier for me than having to keep track of users passwords...

    This feature has now been removed for me and was one of the things that I used regularly.
    @sureiam said:

    @MikePT said:
    @nqservices, @willie:

    https://i.gyazo.com/94d85590960771866199675b7abe3513.mp4

    The function to authenticate is no longer present. There's still a way to access it, but that would be pretty advanced (not tested, but would be very complicated to). This way I edited the template and removed the auth token, the hidden form submitting it and I'd say it's secure enough.
    As we do not provide File Manager access, the admin doesn't have access to your email.

    This has been implemented in London server, I'll need to discuss with Jarland if he wants me to implement this in all our servers.

    WTF... And where does this leave the clients that aren't reselling the services or giving them out to random people to use and possibly abuse?!

    This is beyond annoying. These two dickweeds come in here and complain about something that any decent user who's using the service for their own personal or business use and NOT RESELLING or giving away would appreciate as a feature. Which is to access ALL OF MY OWN EMAIL INBOXES easily, and we now have to complicate that? What if someone has a ton of inboxes for different use cases and wants to shuffle through them quickly?

    This blows. I don't like this "feature", furthermore I don't think a service that has deals for $5 or $15 a year should be pandering to individuals that want to take the account and give it away for free to strangers or sell it to "clients". Especially clients that wouldn't trust them as admin!! It's priced to be used for ones own business or personal needs. Not to be given out or sold for cents on the dollar to individuals that you need to assure you're not accessing their stuff.

    WTF @jarland ?!

    1 - This was disabled in a single server to see how it goes;

    2 - This feature has been enabled again.

    I guess we can't please to everyone, so let's keep it as it was before.

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran

    michaels said: Hate to say it I'm with @nekki on this one, and I have a big risk appetite. I run an agile DevOps team, we move changes into live all the time, it doesn't take any more time to make a change in Dev/Staging before pushing it to live. It's not about blame, it's about stability for your customers and users.

    To finish this, for once...

    I know what @Nekki is talking about. But this change did not require a dev environment.

    Cheers!

  • sureiamsureiam Member
    edited January 2018

    @MikePT said:

    @michaels said:
    Hate to say it I'm with @nekki on this one, and I have a big risk appetite. I run an agile DevOps team, we move changes into live all the time, it doesn't take any more time to make a change in Dev/Staging before pushing it to live. It's not about blame, it's about stability for your customers and users.

    And given that you have removed a feature that I use. I understand the concerns of others here about admins not having access to users mailboxes, but I look after customers who like me being able to log into their accounts and we have a trusted relationship, this link was much easier for me than having to keep track of users passwords...

    This feature has now been removed for me and was one of the things that I used regularly.
    @sureiam said:

    @MikePT said:
    @nqservices, @willie:

    https://i.gyazo.com/94d85590960771866199675b7abe3513.mp4

    The function to authenticate is no longer present. There's still a way to access it, but that would be pretty advanced (not tested, but would be very complicated to). This way I edited the template and removed the auth token, the hidden form submitting it and I'd say it's secure enough.
    As we do not provide File Manager access, the admin doesn't have access to your email.

    This has been implemented in London server, I'll need to discuss with Jarland if he wants me to implement this in all our servers.

    WTF... And where does this leave the clients that aren't reselling the services or giving them out to random people to use and possibly abuse?!

    This is beyond annoying. These two dickweeds come in here and complain about something that any decent user who's using the service for their own personal or business use and NOT RESELLING or giving away would appreciate as a feature. Which is to access ALL OF MY OWN EMAIL INBOXES easily, and we now have to complicate that? What if someone has a ton of inboxes for different use cases and wants to shuffle through them quickly?

    This blows. I don't like this "feature", furthermore I don't think a service that has deals for $very litle or $pretty little a year should be pandering to individuals that want to take the account and give it away for free to strangers or sell it to "clients". Especially clients that wouldn't trust them as admin!! It's priced to be used for ones own business or personal needs. Not to be given out or sold for cents on the dollar to individuals that you need to assure you're not accessing their stuff.

    WTF @jarland ?!

    1 - This was disabled in a single server to see how it goes;

    2 - This feature has been enabled again.

    I guess we can't please to everyone, so let's keep it as it was before.

    Ya man as I said before you can't please everyone all the time. And I KNOW this is an easy change. I KNOW you can easily disable it. It's not rocket science it's a simple HTML change. I'm not worried that you guys are reckless I'm worried that you don't know who you are targeting this service for.

    If you're giving away "unlimited" email accounts and "unlimited" domains for a very low cost (I've deliberately avoided ever saying price of services till this thread) you are then threading the needle with douche bags that will abuse it to high hell.

    Are you going after resellers that want to essentially give away 1000+ inboxes to high traffic businesses receiving tons of emails for rock bottom pricing. Or are you going after IT professionals with 100 clients that need 10 inboxes each where they need to assure them that their data won't be accessed.

    Or Are you going after users that need it for their own business and personal use with 10-30 domains?

    Because the feature set @willie and @nqservices are requesting would be in line with the first two options. And I'm sorry but at this pricing scale I can't imagine the incoming email servers have the capacity to handle that kind of load! Yall need to figure out just which customers you are going after and cater to that subset.

    Thanked by 2michaels jamson
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited January 2018

    A public lesson in how you can't change shared environments to please a vocal minority. That'll be our cue to leave you guys to discuss this among yourselves. You know where to reach us if you need anything.

  • NekkiNekki Veteran
    edited January 2018

    @MikePT said:

    Nekki said: That mindset is why I still have a job in the industry, I reckon.

    Which is, as per your description, a job only required to monitor the DevOps and make sure they don't ruin things. Which I've never done, in 10 years managing HA setups in AWS.

    I don’t monitor anything, and I don’t think I said that. I architect environments, services and systems.

    This is a basic change, a backup of a single file that takes 1s, and a minor change in the html file that has absolutely no security issues, nor it's linked to anything else.
    You're free to judge how you control your DevOps, I'm free to judge how I implement basic stuff, that requires no dev environment to test. It'd only add further delay to edit a single file that's barely accessed, and can make no changes or ruin anything.
    It's not like I'm modifying VPC's @ AWS. Note: You can't backup those. You need to know what you're doing, or else, pff, app has no network connectivity. Now, I know what I'm doing here.

    You’re missing my point. A change, no matter how simple, could break something else, inadvertently.

    Your risk appetite is whatever it is, fine. I was just surprised you’d whack a change straight into production. It’s an alien concept to me, but perhaps that’s due to the scale I usually work at (although I adhere to the same standards for my personal projects).

    But, I guess your mindset is just blaming someone or something, while you're the only professional.

    My mindset is that I must protect my environments, services and systems at all costs. It’s a fact of life that many developers these days are developers with a little ‘d’ - they have little to no understanding of operational process and often do not think about the possible implications of their actions.

    Thanked by 2vimalware sureiam
  • @michaels said:
    Hate to say it I'm with @nekki on this one

    Thanks m8.

    Thanked by 1michaels
  • @MikePT Thanks for putting it back. I know you can't please all the users all the time, but for something like this you could make it an admin switch perhaps? That way people could turn on and off the features they require. I don't know how easy something like that would be in cpanel :/

    Thanked by 1depricated
  • @michaels said:
    @MikePT Thanks for putting it back. I know you can't please all the users all the time, but for something like this you could make it an admin switch perhaps? That way people could turn on and off the features they require. I don't know how easy something like that would be in cpanel :/

    Wouldn’t that defeat the point?

  • @Nekki said:

    @michaels said:
    @MikePT Thanks for putting it back. I know you can't please all the users all the time, but for something like this you could make it an admin switch perhaps? That way people could turn on and off the features they require. I don't know how easy something like that would be in cpanel :/

    Wouldn’t that defeat the point?

    Yes it would, but as we established there has to be a level of trust. If you then had a delegated admin / operator who couldn't access that setting so it was at a global level. The global admin password is then randomly generated and stored in an envelop at someone's Nans... idk.

  • YmpkerYmpker Member
    edited January 2018

    @jarland said:

    @kassle said:

    The MXroute.io product is a partnership between MXroute (Jalrand Donnell) and WebNegócio

    Jalrand = @jarland ? el typo ?

    I was probably drinking.

    I acctually sent you a pm about that typo.

  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider, Veteran

    @michaels said:
    @MikePT Thanks for putting it back. I know you can't please all the users all the time, but for something like this you could make it an admin switch perhaps? That way people could turn on and off the features they require. I don't know how easy something like that would be in cpanel :/

    That'd require changes in the cPanel code itself, and not a simple html form change, unfortunately we can't do that, nor cPanel is designed to do so. I've been searching about this and there's no API call to enable it either, so there's not much we can do here other than wait for cPanel to create the subaccount features they're about to, though it could still present the same problem for you.

    It's the auth token that authorizes the login to the webmail interface for any account that belongs to that cPanel account, so we'd need to change cPanel's code really. Can't do that for sure :-).

    Thanked by 1willie
  • nqservicesnqservices Member
    edited January 2018

    @sureiam said:

    This is beyond annoying. These two dickweeds come in here and complain

    >

    First I don't admit insults. If you want to have a conversation, ok, but if you start calliing me names when you don't know me from anywhere that is just bad education!

    If you read my comments (without blind eyes), you will see that I did not demand or request this features. I have given my opinion just like you did on your comment. The difference is that I don't give free insults because I was raised properly!

    Really hope to see LET to level up the education level, because the way it is with some members, they would be ban in a second on any other respectful forum. One thing is to play a little with some funny things... but insulting others without reason is just stupid!

  • @nqservices said:

    Really hope to see LET to level up the education level, because the way it is with some members, they would be ban in a second on any other respectful forum. One thing is to play a little with some funny things... but insulting others without reason is just stupid!

    Quiet, dickweed.

  • WSSWSS Member

    @nqservices said:

    @sureiam said:

    This is beyond annoying. These two dickweeds come in here and complain

    >

    First I don't admit insults. If you want to have a conversation, ok, but if you start calliing me names when you don't know me from anywhere that is just bad education!

    Well, to be fair (and consider both views), you are a dickweed.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    As mxroute seem to have stepped out I would politely ask that this thread does not become a raging war of insults.

    Thanked by 3willie jar MikePT
  • WSSWSS Member

    @AnthonySmith said:
    As mxroute seem to have stepped out I would politely ask that this thread does not become a raging war of insults.

    You must be new here..

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    As mxroute seem to have stepped out I would politely ask that this thread does not become a raging war of insults.

    To be fair, after saying they were out, in true @MikePT style, @MikePT came back again.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider
    edited January 2018

    I am working on a far more important top 5 right now, I need thinking space, pretty sure SFII will be there at number 1, the rest... hmm they are fighting in my head.

    Thanked by 1Nekki
  • @AnthonySmith said:
    I am working on a far more important top 5 right now, I need thinking space,

    Fair enough.

    I nearly cried this morning when I realised I hadn’t included Sin and Punishment. This must be what it feels like when you fail to mention your parents in your Best Actor acceptance speech.

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    As mxroute seem to have stepped out I would politely ask that this thread does not become a raging war of insults.

    @AnthonySmith: From my end It will be very hard for you to see insults. But as for @sureiam, @Nekki and @WSS it will be hard to see other than that, just because from their comments they seem to be on the lowest level of the Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement: https://imgur.com/a/QDbAh

  • NekkiNekki Veteran
    edited January 2018

    @nqservices said:

    @AnthonySmith said:
    As mxroute seem to have stepped out I would politely ask that this thread does not become a raging war of insults.

    @AnthonySmith: From my end It will be very hard for you to see insults. But as for @sureiam, @Nekki and @WSS it will be hard to see other than that, just because from their comments they seem to be on the lowest level of the Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement: https://imgur.com/a/QDbAh

    You’re an ass-hat.

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