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Yeah I hear that a lot from upper middle class non-rural residents, among other things
Flagged for trolling.
OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
We don't live in a libertarian paradise where there are no taxes.
Europe taxes services; the U.S. doesn't. Governments need to do this to pay for things that its people expect it to pay for.
European companies must collect VAT from European residents and remit it, similar to how U.S. retailers collect sales tax from everyone and remit it.
However, small U.S. companies have waded through lax enforcement when selling to Europeans and thus enjoy a price advantage that many would consider unfair.
Generally no - but there are some situations where a State with a large sales tax (e.g., Washington State) borders a State with no sales tax (Oregon) so there are some tax refund schemes on big-ticket items like boats and cars. Nevertheless, the Apple Store in Portland is extremely popular amongst tourists from Washington and California.
VAT is a more modern scheme designed in the 70s that avoids double taxation while keeping things easy for policymakers to change in response to economic conditions.
True - I don't hear many European hosts complaining on this forum about non-remitters like @jarland 's MXroute and @Francisco 's BuyVM. I don't perceive that these advantages/disadvantages are killing anybody's business yet.
And yes - power is cheaper in France because of nuclear and socialism, too.
I don't understand how @Francisco is getting away with this. He has assets in Luxembourg. The protections for ignorance are running out at the end of 2017. I think he could be in for a really rude awakening by the EU authorities in 2018.
True however if I was a smaller business like BuyVM I would be happy to wait it out and see what happens. Unless of course, the EU business was substantial enough like it is with DO and others to tow the line.
That's fine. My life philosophy is live and let live. If a bunch of people want to gather together and do something collectively, more power to them. As with anything, my only objection is when someone approached me and demands that I join the collective "or else." It's not uncommon, because the collective does often perceive anyone not participating as a threat. It's not unique to any particular system, rather innately human. You see some of that in this thread, fear of the foreigners who didn't agree to their social contract. Meanwhile as you point out, doesn't seem to actually be hurting business in that direction.
It's all personal priorities. Me, I value most my ability to make my own decisions in as many aspects of my life as possible. Some prefer a collective good. Different personalities is all.
Ehh........
Wait it out and see? With the tax man? The longer you wait the bigger your bill + interest. Maybe if you just want to collect some yearly payments and deadpool a few months later, but...
It also helps that European states pay around 1% average of their GDP toward defense while the U.S./UK dedicate 4%. Leaves extra money for hospitals and free university.
Fran is Texan at heart, I can feel it. We all know the cartoon version of what happens when you show up to collect taxes here.
(In reality it's more like belligerent man in sleeveless shirt opens door with beer in hand and tells the tax collector where to shove it)
I think that you're exaggerating the danger for BuyVM. Again, the worst that could happen is that they seize BuyVM's servers in Luxembourg, but this wouldn't happen without a warning beforehand, and given a warning, BuyVM could decide how to proceed. The EU wouldn't be able to enforce taxes retroactively on BuyVM. In sum, given a warning, BuyVM could decide to pull out of Luxembourg (and the EU), or they could decide to comply.
Then again if anyone would try to enforce EU rules for them outside of their borders, Canada might be the one....
I always forget that BuyVM is a Canadian company. :-)
You're right, Canada is more likely to send tax collectors after BuyVM on the behalf of the EU. :-)
Nah, we are talking about a badly implemented VAT system, the ability of the EU to know who is, isn't or should be paying is well beyond the functionality of the system even if you're in the EU nevermind outside it. Sure, it will improve in time but right now, not so much.
For someone like Fran and BuyVM, virtually invisible from the system at present.
Wait. I'm gonna get an Xmas card?
I feel bad. I didn't send you one.
EDIT: Well, here. Instead of an Xmas card, here's an all-purpose Chrismahanukkah mix. Enjoy!
Yeah, my guess would be five years minimum before BuyVM or MXroute receive a letter.
Funny thing we only mention small companies that do have some customers. We got thousands of companies who dont give a damn ****. What about corrupt politics? People are just trying to make a live.
It depends. If that Ohio company also has offices/operations in NY, then they will wind up having to sign up for NY sales tax and collect and remit it from their NY customers. The face-off between Amazon and various states was over what actually constitutes a nexus for sales tax purposes. Some states claimed, for example, that just having affiliates in a state was enough, which was why Amazon cancelled its affiliate program in certain states (including mine) for a while. Don't get me started...
However, all but Bulgaria pay way more than Texas,
the average EU price is 20 Eur cents+ while in TX it is about 9 Dollar cents. Bulgaria still pays more, but not that much more. Also, that is the price WITHOUT VAT, since we are at a VAT discussion, so about 20% is ADDED to that price and still EU has cheaper services.
Edit: Those are household prices as it is clear in the picture, but, since large companies can have different deals with the power grid and we cannot really compare those, I thought an average of household prices which can be subsidized in some places gives at least a decent idea on how the proportionality is.
EDIT 2: On "subsidies", the mistake is that people think the price is subsidized to be lower, when in fact the subsidies are paid by the final consumer (at least in part) so the renewables gain a larger proportion in the mix, NOT to lower the price, but to INCREASE it unlike in US where renewables are considered a chinese hoax, not an engine of growth.
You have your moments, even late at night. :-)
My impression has always been that it doesn't usually make sense for a household to leave the "subsidized" household plan, because leaving it for a "free market" plan would be more expensive, assuming that the household's electricity consumption remains within the limit imposed by the household plan. (I looked into this several years ago and came to this conclusion.)
But you're right that the goal per se of the "subsidized" household plan is not to offer a low price.
As far as electricity prices in the US are concerned, they can vary significantly from state to state. In this respect, Texas is cheap, but (e.g.) California is expensive.
As noted, the subsidies do not mean someone pays part of the household electricity usage to make it cheaper, but the household pays part of the green certificates to subsidy the renewables mix needed to reduce pollution.
In effect, I pay a higher electricity price, not a lower one through the subsidy system. Same happens for companies, everyone shares the burden while US subsidies coal lowering the final consumer price.
I gave the TX example because it was relevant to jarland's case, incero is in Dallas. Even in the most extreme cases such as Dallas vs EU power costs (where US is clearly at advantage due to the subsidies to lower the cost, not increase it like in EU as well as not charging VAT or other taxes) and still US final price for colo/VPSes, etc is not much lower than in EU, even though, in this particular case, the network is not worse, but probably on par with most of EU offers.
In effect, I pay a higher electricity price, not a lower one through the subsidy system. Same happens for companies, everyone shares the burden while US subsidies coal lowering the final consumer price.
Sure, I agree.
I was just pointing out that it generally makes sense for a household to choose the household plan as opposed to the non-household plan, because the household plan is generally less expensive for a household.
Oh, right, I now see better what you meant to say.
The US has no federal VAT. All VAT in Europe is always federal as the EU is not a government above the members. Read how the EU is built; this has very, very specific reasons to keep a power balance especially between France and Germany. The only thing the EU has, and this also only since some years, is a minimum VAT. There are further EU territories (full members with customs union) with zero VAT, notably the canary islands or your very own azores, aside of some French things.
They can. You register directly as foreign company then; there is absolutely no need for an EU based sub company.
As you are very well aware, as it is the same in Romania, there is below a threshold no need to separate VAT by EU member country - charging your local VAT in this case is normal. They later separated into MOSS as anyone would. The French company was new and not the existing Italian company which is far above this limit obviously.
What VAT? If the UK, as non EU member, has their own trade agreements with eg. China there is no import tax or VAT billed at all. On either side.
They have no choice. They will leave.
And no, your assumption is wrong - the UK can very well exempt any imports from VAT, while the exporters from EU are not paying any, thus yielding an entirely VAT and import tax free sale.
Taxation is on the import side, this case the UK, not the export, this case the EU. The EU countries will not charge any tax to any UK company anymore, as simple as that. They are the same as me selling to Israel - i do not charge any tax at all, obviously.
US states have no right to in any way interfere with international treaties, imports, or similar things - this is in the US a 100% federal matter. The EU is not like this and the countries define this directly.
Absolutely wrong. For consumer services this is BARELY true, for enterprise it is not at all. Ohio undercuts any EU country in power pricing and transit is still the cheapest in NYC; LAX, DAL and CHI - far front of LON, FRA or AMS. Only peering is cheaper in Europe.
Not at all; i can put anything as company expense here and get my VAT back. Our laws are non existent.
If anything, being a company, saved me money on both income tax and VAT side, absolutely legal.
The numbers in your psychotic mind are going circles again. The US contribution to Israels defence budget is compared to the sole local US army/navy/air force budget not relevant at all. Same for Egypt and the next largest non-EU recipient - Pakistan. Nearly all money is spent local.
You also, as always, leave out that 90%+ of this money is bound by contracts to go back to US companies in sales, thus this is actually a profit for the US economy.
Then, lastly, you leave out that the other 2 nations with the largest military spending - China and Russia - do not have any legal obligation to publish true numbers, and everyone knows they do not, while the US has to.
Any EU country knows who owns what there, obviously, there is zero difference in this between US and locals in eg. owning an office building. Depending on what you do and your origin country you even have to register as "foreign agent" just like media in the US and Russia has to.
You very much distort the reality here.
To your last point - Czech gun ownership rates are high, Austria are high, Yugoslavia is extremely high, with no issues - this is a US problem, thus cultural, and not a valid point.
Please learn how the UK works. Both countries you named belong to them and are not entirely independent, they are just currently by existing treaties for one reason or another not VAT or customs area members.
The example you want is Panama or Hong Kong, where especially HK cannot easily be forced by either US or EU to do anything (being backed by both Chinas).
I'm sure you know and again intentionally left this out: Power has further taxes than just VAT, that also companies pay - in Germany you eg. have the 'tax' to remove nuclear power, the transportation, the city network and so on.
The US does also not subsidise energy, not sure where the hell you get this idea from, in fact a LOT of US energy companies are highly in debt - they only provided comparatively cheap nuclear raw material to them after/inside the cold war which incited to build NPPs on credit that the same gov also provided.
Again, distorted info, the US is one of the largest renewable energy producers by size alone; the installed capacity is behind EU but still WAY above Asia of Africa.
The US gov, and the relevant agencies, do not consider "renewable energy" a "chinese hoax" - maybe you should unfollow Trump on twitter though, or at least not believe all the bs there.
I will reply only to a few things as tonight I have many things to do:
I did not "intentionally" leave anything out but it was long enough. My point is that EU power is NOT subsidized in the classical sense, lower the price to the final consumer, but is used to excize money for renewables, as well as other things, include green certificates and so on, all what you listed and more, this only strengthens my point that EU power is way more expensive than in US, far from what someone said that france has cheaper hosting because the power is kept cheaper than in US somehow.
US does subsidize fossil fuels left right and center.
This is from Obama era: https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf
Also, the energy sector in general:
http://www.psr.org/nuclear-bailout/resources/subsidies-in-the-us-energy.pdf
Right, things are changing rapidly and some of the info is no longer valid, but the subsidies are there in many shapes and forms.
So, while EU does have subsidies in the classical sense too, US also has them and in EU the final bill is much more influenced by the energy overcharge than the measures taken to lower the costs, so, in EU power is much more expensive than US, not only due to VAT, of course. This was my point, France does NOT have cheaper power than US, still has cheaper hosting.
Exactly my point, yet, for me and many other people, it is cheaper to host in EU.
Of course, US has 300 mil people Israel had only 6.5 mil worth defending the rest are occupied people or citizens of other religions. Also, the countries differ in size enormously, even if we consider the occupied territories in Israel (because they drain a lot of the military resources) US also has to subsidize many other armies and regimes, cant give all to Israel. Where are the money spent, is irrelevant, the Soviet Union occupied many countries in Europe, the fact they spent the resources locally or in Russia was never relevant, they were still used to prop up unpopular regimes and enslave people.
Yet, because Trump did not manage to put his people in charge of everything for now and when they are in charge, will have to take a lot of time to dismantle what was built in more than 10 years. There is a lot of passive and active resistance as those people do not respond well to propaganda for the masses, but he will get there given enough time.
I know, you did not read what I wrote in this thread, not to mention other places.
You are again reinforcing my point, .ru and .cn admit those numbers, when in fact they are higher as everyone suspects, so they are at least at those levels, so, it is notfair for the russian taxpayer compared tot he american one, the US spends far less in % of GDP to prop up much more war criminals and failed states than Russia to prop up just a few with real money and military, so, US is much more efficient than Russia.
Tl;DR My conclusion is that, in general, you did not bother to read what I wrote and try to combat my arguments reinforcing them. Where you do not try that, you are plain wrong and dont offer any sources.
Why you keep saying that Time4VPS is Russian provider?