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If the provider sends an invoice for a canceled service, that would have been fraud.
In this case the user canceled their service, the billing system no knows that there will be no more invoices and doesn't expect money from the client. It can therefor not give any warnings since there is nothing to warn about.
The client, using a third party payment gateway then sends money to the provider and the money is marked as credit for future service as there is no current service to pay for.
It is always the client who makes the decision if he/she should set up a subscription with the third party payment gateway or manually pay each gemerated invoice.
I'll give you a suggestion, if the provider forces you to sign up with a subscription, an el it the minute you clicked on pay. That way you wont forget to do it after you clicked cancel.
Geez, how much handholding do you need?
I was under the impression that we're all adults that know that a "subscription" will charge your account automatically, and that someone tech-savvy enough to rent a server would be able to click a button on a website to cancel a subscription.
I've been in a similar situation once, cancelled a service, didn't verify that the PayPal subscription had been cancelled along with it, and ended up with account credit that was of no use to me.
That's the point where you say to yourself "ah, crap, got to pay more attention next time" and not "reeee, provider's trying to scam me, need to start forum shitstorm".
Get over yourselves and try to be responsible adults, please…
This is a misunderstanding of what a PayPal subscription does. The provider does not reach out and invoke the subscription. The user's PayPal account automatically sends money to them. If I hire someone to place cash in an envelope and drop it on someone's doorstep every month, then I stop doing business with that person and forget to fire the person I hired to drop cash at their door, the person who's door I dropped cash at is in no way, shape, or form committing an act of fraud.
Would it be nice of them to return the money? Absolutely. But in this case, the person I was doing business with has a no refunds policy that I agreed to. I can ask nicely and hope for the best, but if they refuse then it's up to me to determine how important it is to me. I can file a lawsuit if I really want, but I don't think it's very clear who would win it.
It's always nice to see that the most active users on LET are actually providers. He has done an honest mistake, he seems like a nice guy and probably really needs that money. Just don't be such a cock and refund him?
Are you also a good guy?
Most of the providers here would refund it, and frequently do refund situations like that. They just don't have a lot of sympathy for being told that it should be expected of them or their duty to do so.
I have also a bad review about PageClick, in the promotion post it says that they own the servers but after I registered I figured out that they are just a reseller for another hosting besthostinguk,,, before the service get active I contacted the support to cancel the service and refund the money but they active the service instead , after that I opened a PayPal deposit and then PageClick deactivate the account without refunding any money ,,, I did that because I already have a reseller in bestwebhosting.uk and didn't like their services..
So its not about the money 39$ but when you take someone's money and also deactivate the service in the same day then something is wrong.
As far as I know they used to resell but moved to their own dedicated gear earlier this year.
And since it's been performing well
I don't make people's lives harder without reason, because I know how hard life already is without having to deal with such shtheads. I don't think it makes me a good guy, I like to think it makes me a decent person.
Who is saying that it's their duty to refund him? It's just the right thing to do, something that everybody that is halfway decent would do without thinking twice about it. If whoever runs PageClick isn't ready to refund after such an obvious mistake, he deserves to be publicly criticised and not the customer (like in this thread).
Right thing based on what standards? What are your morals based on and why do you think that everyone should conform to them? Do you often sign up with providers who have terms that you agree to and then expect them to ignore their terms in favor of your morals values? Do you discuss with them ahead of time what their personal morals are?
I may agree with you that it's right, but it's still a policy agreed to and a mistake made by the customer, and the provider does not have to be courteous by any individual's standards. It's still dickish to shame them for following a policy that was agreed to. There can be two parties being dicks, doesn't have to be one side right and one wrong.
A provider not refunding an overpayment is being a dick. So is a customer shaming them for following a policy that they agreed to.
@jarland
Fair enough. I still think that OP has done the right thing by opening this thread. I wouldn't want to do business with a host that has such low moral values. Warning other people about it was the right thing to do, I would have done the same.
What the hell is wrong with all you shithosters @Ishaq @mikho @Clouvider and any others I missed. We literally just had a conversation about overpayments in regard to VolumeDrive/Quadix. That OP sent $28000. What's the difference here?
PayPal is notoriously confusing and complex. And no businesses outside of WHMCS shithosts uses "Subscriptions". Everybody else in the world sets up Billing Agreements where the business is allowed to charge PayPal as necessary and, indeed, there is a WHMCS module for just that which a host can use if it actually cares. I never even heard of a "PayPal Subscription" until I bought a VPS from some WHMCS host. Completely reasonable to expect that a customer would have no foresight to cancel a subscription in addition to the VPS.
You can certainly hide behind the TOS that nobody reads. But this is bad business practice and I'm glad the OP called out @Ishaq on it. It's so simple to respond with https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/article/how-do-i-cancel-a-subscription-faq577 and then hit the "Refund" button in WHMCS on a service that no longer exists.
If a provider do not respect his terms for me its a nogo to host with them. Terms are there to regulate relations between buyer and seller and those must be respected by both sides.
He revewed his service, dident sent the money by mistake like the billionair who sent +22.000$
Shithosters ? Grow up. I don't appreciate the way you're calling us mate.
Contracts are binding. You have to obey the rules you signed up to. No one forced you to. You should read the contract before signing. You shouldn't expect one to break the terms but only in such a way that pleases you. If you want the refund terms broken, then perhaps the uptime vuarantee should be broken to make the new changes contract equal for both parties, what do you think ?
The fact that someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make one a 'shithoster'.
He didn't renew his service. The OP cancelled it in WHMCS and didn't know to cancel the subscription in PayPal.
And remember: this was one overpayment. It's not even like the OP sent $50 every month for 2 years and amassed a huge account credit.
So in your mind someone else has to fix the mess you end up in because of your decisions?
The subscription part is an agreement between the customer and paypal. The provider has nothing to do with that agreement.
As been said before in this thread and many before that, the provider is in his full rights to keep the money as advance payment for future services. If that is what the TOS says.
I know many providers who would refund with any problems if the customer asks for it. If the customer opens a ticket about it and brings the big guns, blames the provider and calls him a shithoster. I understand that the provider decides to abide the contract that was accepted by both sides when the customer bought the service.
I don't agree with your comparison with the Quadix case since there was no invoice created in this case to fraud the customer.
The customer sent the money and the provider put is as credit. Still owned by the customer.
I always cancel the Paypal subscriptions at signup and just pay invoices manually so I don't have to worry about it. I got lazy once with a WSI subscription and got charged for a server I no longer wanted but it was my fault for not canceling it so I chalked it up as a loss.
advise to everyone: only use subscription with [ super necessary] BIG providers/vendors.
There was no decision. The OP thought that the subscription would naturally be cancelled when the VPS was cancelled. How unreasonable is that? Why should the OP even know that a subscription needs additional cancellation in PayPal? Especially when WHMCS hosts seem to be the only industry that actually uses subscriptions?
The OP did everything reasonable: he submitted a proper cancellation request in WHMCS so his service was terminated, and he contacted support immediately upon seeing the subscription payment.
"Fixing this mess" means finding the last invoice, finding the "Refund" tab in WHMCS, then hitting the "Refund" button. Ishaq is a smart guy and can do much more complex shit than that.
Yeah and nobody actually reads the TOS. But I suppose that's the consumer's fault?
You put clauses in the TOS to cover your ass in court. You don't put info in the TOS to actually help your customers do the right things.
I like @Ishaq but I will cancel all my BudgetNodes because of this. I must stand up for the Consumer out of principle.
If you look at OP's screenshots, this was not the case.
I'm going to side on the customer on this one. The service was CANCELLED and the payment should have been reversed as soon as the provider was notified.
Would side with customer too.
@Clouvider So you wouldn't have refunded the customer in this situation? "Interesting".
IF the cancellation notice was sent on time for the particular service being cancelled, and a subsequent subscription payment was sent despite the service would be ceased per contractual means then we do not have any terms that would prevent a refund, as such we'd refund the payment - payment fee incurred, assuming the Customer would request that in a reasonable time (i.e. Not after we provided another month of service for free assuming the Customer in fact wants to stay with us).
I understand why this would be frustrating as a customer. We're likely going to move to Billing Agreements since subscriptions seem to be the biggest cause of problem for customers who don't cancel it properly.
Please reply to your ticket so we can arrange a refund in this case.
I highly recommend it. We have been using them for 2 years now. It solves a lot of these problems, not all but a lot.
don't forget to cancel the paypal subscriptions too
Zing!