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ExtraVM | YourServer.se | KMS - DMCA Takedown request handling
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ExtraVM | YourServer.se | KMS - DMCA Takedown request handling

LowfryLowfry Member
edited August 2017 in Providers

Hello,
I just wanted to inform you about the takedown request handling of a few server hosts and some of them are approaching this very unprofessional.

I've used all of those servers for reverse proxifying to maintain a high availability of the project. The project was and is still legal in respect to each's countries laws and rules.
However, a law office from the USA decided to randomly send false takedown requests, probably they've found some keywords on the projects website and sent the DMCA takedowns automatically. I don't really know.

ExtraVM: terminated the server AND account without any notice/mail. (Update: got my money back)

YourServer.se: I got a suspension notice for the server and that I should login, however the account was already deleted

If someone hosts at these hosters you can probably just send them a good faked takedown request and they will eventually terminate the customers host. They neither verified if the takedown request was valid or asked me about it.

KMS: these guys actually used common sense and gave me 24 hours to delete the content

Kudos to Trabia, qloc and blazingfast who actually didn't send me a notification at all, looks like they actually got that the DMCA requests were not rightfully at all.

Comments

  • NekkiNekki Veteran
    edited August 2017

    What's are you proxying that's got the DCMA boys all frothy?

    Thanked by 2trewq WSS
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    Lowfry said: a law office from the USA decided to randomly send false takedown requests

    Seems fairly unlikely that a law office would automate such a thing as they leave themselves incredibly liable for doing that.

    Lowfry said: probably they've found some keywords on the projects website and sent the DMCA takedowns automatically. I don't really know.

    Why don't you know, did you not even get a copy of the DMCA?

    Something seems a bit off here either your understanding of DMCA or your hosts understanding of it.

    Thanked by 1ElliotJ
  • A website for game hacking like many already exist around the web. All the stuff is registered on my company etc.

  • LowfryLowfry Member
    edited August 2017

    @AnthonySmith said:
    Why don't you know, did you not even get a copy of the DMCA?

    First they shall sent an e-mail to postmaster@tld / e-mail give on the imprint page. After that they shall contact the provider.

    However, I didn't receive any copy at e.g. ExtraVM

  • HarambeHarambe Member, Host Rep

    We can ask @MikeA to confirm for ExtraVM. Not sure if there's a YourServer.se rep here.

  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2017

    The DMCA were absolutely legitimate, unless their corporate mail server on their domain was hacked, and I don't advertise as a DMCA friendly provider. If you want a refund for the last month of Bitcoin payment send me a DM with the e-mail and address it was sent from.

    I handle abuse differently depending on what is hosted, I've forwarded notices to plenty of people and given over 24 hours to reply, but I don't deal with reverse proxies and abuse since it's almost always people just hopping provider to provider looking for places to place their proxies at. (which you confirmed above)

  • As I mentioned the content hosted there is legal in France, so how do you define a legitimate DMCA request?
    There are three shady companies contracted by Activision that try to take down our legal content and just because they claim content to be abusive it doesn't mean it's legitimate, in fact they also wrote multiple abuse reports to OVH that was full of lies (ex. claiming we redistribute games by activision) just to get our servers suspended.

    Also beside that there wasn't even any content hosted on your network. Cloudflare does provide their services for almost anyone and they aren't in legal trouble either.

  • FlamesRunnerFlamesRunner Member
    edited August 2017

    @Lowfry

    I'm not all too sure about DMCA laws, but it does seem like ExtraVM is run from the USA -- which means (don't count me on it) US laws apply to him.

    He's offering you a refund; take your data, pack your bags and move to another provider.

    Thanked by 1Aidan
  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider
    edited August 2017

    @Lowfry said:
    As I mentioned the content hosted there is legal in France, so how do you define a legitimate DMCA request?
    There are three shady companies contracted by Activision that try to take down our legal content and just because they claim content to be abusive it doesn't mean it's legitimate, in fact they also wrote multiple abuse reports to OVH that was full of lies (ex. claiming we redistribute games by activision) just to get our servers suspended.

    Also beside that there wasn't even any content hosted on your network. Cloudflare does provide their services for almost anyone and they aren't in legal trouble either.

    You're best off sticking with those Ukrainian companies. Moving your traffic through half a dozen proxies surely isn't easy for you.

    @FlamesRunner said:
    He's offering you a refund; take your data, pack your bags and move to another provider.

    The only reason (I think) this falls under DMCA protection is the fact what he is selling is circumventing the protection software on the games. But I'm no lawyer.

  • Is it only me notice really too much DMCA requests since January 2017? I see many projects at colleagues which never has been touched for years got massive reports and problems and issues with DMCA where hosted their content. Are there any laws changes in January? The peak of complaints came in July, someone can confirm it, or refute it?

  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited August 2017

    @Lowfry Your comparison is waaay off. First of all, CloudFlare is _known_to allow people to proxy illegal content. The only time they step in is when they absolutely have to (ex. news coverage).

    For the price you pay, why would a company want to keep you anyway? Takedown noticed (copyright related or not) are a liability.

    Plus, this forum is for content that is legal and stuff that != related to hacking/sneaker proxies/etc.

  • hzrhzr Member
    edited August 2017

    MikeA said: The only reason (I think) this falls under DMCA protection is the fact what he is selling is circumventing the protection software on the games. But I'm no lawyer.

    Any form of circumvention is covered, it doesn't matter what kind or how weak. If for example a login handshake protocol uses base64 or rot13, then "decoding" that, given the intent, can/will be illegal.

    DMCA also covers distribution of such tools, separately illegal on top of circumvention.

    Can also argue that patching game memory or etc is creating illegitimate infringing derivative works.

    I can think of so many further reasons incl CFAA, I doubt your hack tools creators are also doing clean room implementations and not using any derivative or images from game(s).

    This is pretty cut and dry violation. If you're going to make this crap then host it somewhere far away from anything related to US.

    Thanked by 1flatland_spider
  • Also, @Lowfry, do remember that false DMCA requests are:

    • under penalty of perjury

    • are punishable with prison time and large fines

    If you believe that the DMCA claim was invalid, feel free to sue the alleging party.

    (Not legal advice. I assume zero responsibility for your actions.)

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    Lowfry said: If someone hosts at these hosters you can probably just send them a good faked takedown request and they will eventually terminate the customers host

    No, i get legit abuse at one of them that is just not EU valid and have zero issues.

    FlamesRunner said: Also, @Lowfry, do remember that false DMCA requests are:

    under penalty of perjury

    are punishable with prison time and large fines

    Only for Americans. European citizens cannot be charged for falsification of something they cannot use in the first place.

    hzr said: Any form of circumvention is covered, it doesn't matter what kind or how weak. If for example a login handshake protocol uses base64 or rot13, then "decoding" that, given the intent, can/will be illegal.

    No, Germany for example requires WORKING (German: "wirksam") protection and defines, once cracked, as not effective. This was in court.

    See § 95a Abs. 2 UrhG for the definition 1, and § 69d UrhG for the one that applies to games. Game owners have a right to copies of their owned game, and thus the obtaining, use and manufacture of cracks is overall not a crime in any way.

    Lowfry said: As I mentioned the content hosted there is legal in France

    "ExtraVM, based in Texas" -> https://extravm.com/about.html

    Does not matter thus, DMCA is applicable to them, regardless if hosted in US or not, as US company.

    Thanked by 1Lowfry
  • LowfryLowfry Member
    edited August 2017

    Did I miss something? DMCA claims are only valid in the USA.

    Edit: ^what william just said.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    Lowfry said: Did I miss something? DMCA claims are only valid in the USA.

    Misconception.

    The ACTUAL request yes, but if the ISP gets it, opens the website and it is CLEARLY VISIBLE illegal like movie streaming not acting is criminal in most of the EU, regardless if there was any EUCD sent. Depending on case (like here) it might be not clear, in some it might be ok to play dumb as well, but some (like a clearly cinema rip movie download site) will cause ISP liability if not acted on.

    Same principle as if you get random abuse for CP, open the site, see CP and ignore it because it is not from LEO.

    Thanked by 1Lowfry
  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    Why is this discussion even allowed to continue here?

    Thanked by 1Aidan
  • WSSWSS Member

    @Clouvider said:
    Why is this discussion even allowed to continue here?

    Because no fucks are given. I mean, c'mon. CC still doesn't even have IPv6.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    Clouvider said: Why is this discussion even allowed to continue here?

    Because his site is likely legal in EU, the crack offering case was fought out in court - it allows only a very narrow window (like formerly P2P sites in Spain but not commercially profiting from it) but it is not absolutely clearly illegal.

    HOWEVER, the cas eof botting - thus profit from in game currency and similar, especially if sold for real profit - has also fought out and was lost; it is illegal to SELL this products, offering for free is very complex legally though.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @WSS said:

    @Clouvider said:
    Why is this discussion even allowed to continue here?

    Because no fucks are given. I mean, c'mon. CC still doesn't even have IPv6.

    I hope it will be in my lifetime that at least majority of the traffic in the Internet flows over v6.

  • WSSWSS Member

    @Clouvider said:
    I hope it will be in my lifetime that at least majority of the traffic in the Internet flows over v6.

    Personally, I still want to see more avian carriers. With drones, this is actually attainable.

    CC won't have V6 by the time we're all dead, because math is hard.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider
  • OP is selling gamehacks so obviously the game companies will target you with DMCA since it's the easiest way to shut down a cheat site. Try Blazingfast next time.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    what a surprise.. half-truth told on posting, key details left out, it's these sort of people that don't understand why when they end up in jail and constantly blame the system or think they have a magic loophole.

    Thanked by 1AuroraZ
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