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Turkey and firewalls, VPNs, sim cards -- looking for local knowledge
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Turkey and firewalls, VPNs, sim cards -- looking for local knowledge

hicohico Member
edited August 2017 in General

I will be in Turkey for 3 weeks SEP and OCT.

I have heard it is hard to get a simcard, is that true? And what is the best solution as I also have mobile 4G router I am fond of and share connections with my partner.

VPNs necessary?
I have a couple but in SE Asia so they may run slow but need to check gmail and FB for my wife.

Any suggestions appreciated, even things not mentioned as this will be my first trip to Turkey.

a- sim cards with data plan for phone

b- data plan for mobile router

c- VPNs- which work, which don't .... or what is suggested.

«1

Comments

  • Maybe the VPNs are not necessary as they only monitor you

    Thanked by 1muratai
  • bugrakocbugrakoc Member
    edited August 2017

    Well, I don't know how hard it is for a foreigner to get a sim tbh. Locals need to present a valid ID and sign some papers (not a contract that binds you for a given amount of time but still) before getting one. My guess is you should be fine with your passport, but don't count on this one as I don't have any experience on this.

    Where are you going to stay? Turkcell has the best coverage for rural areas, however for major cities like Istanbul or Ankara, Vodafone and Turk Telekom are decent as well. They all have data only plans, albeit I've never used.

    As for VPNs, you don't necessarily need one. Most of the censorship is happening by ISP DNS hijacking, so just point your DNS to Google and you're mostly golden. However you still may need a VPN sometimes. They sometimes block some sites when they feel like it, then unblock them. Totally unpredictable, but these are rare. Only Wikipedia is blocked at the moment (yeah what a shame..).

    I should also add, EU locations usually have way better connection than Asian locations, and also closer to everything unless you are from Asia yourself, especially DE and NL. So if you have another VPN in one of these locations, you should use them instead.

    Edit: Well I misread the last paragraph, if you only have SE Asia, they should be plenty for email and Wikipedia.

    Thanked by 3vimalware hico Ympker
  • RIYADRIYAD Member, Patron Provider

    Last month I was in Turkey (Nevşehir) for a week . I was using the hotel wifi and internet was quit good . But the internet IP was getting changed every few minutes.

    So i simply used VPN (openvpn) from EU location , and worked perfectly .

    Thanked by 1hico
  • An update on the topic.

    My GF recently started to work for a new startup named Rent 'n Connect. They rent out 4G mobile modems with a sim preloaded with unlimited data. The device is delivered to your hotel before your arrival. €5.99/day. 30% off for 7+ days.

    Thought it might be useful for @hico or others.

  • PUSHR_VictorPUSHR_Victor Member, Host Rep

    I will provide you with a Bulgarian VPN for free. The speed should be good from Turkey. Ping me when you get there.

  • BarisBaris Member
    edited August 2017

    Turkish guy here.

    You need a passport to register a SIM card. Don't expect that employees speak proper English in regions which are not touristic but they still gonna try to help you.

    You can top up your balance almost anywhere.

    Turkcell has the best coverage.

    After you put in your Turkish sim card you have a grace period of 120 days to register your foreign phone/4g router with the authorities. You have to pay a tax at the local tax office.

    Here is a good article with all major operators and all other things you should know:
    http://prepaid-data-sim-card.wikia.com/wiki/Turkey

    Ask for special promos, they will certainly have some special offer for you.

    Last time I was there stock OpenVPN worked without a problem. I used a VPS in Germany, speed was good. There was no need to have a obfuscated VPN connection. to be on the safe side you can use Shadowsocks. They have a bright past in blocking content so you better use a VPN. Fuck Erdoğan.

    Have fun.

    Thanked by 1Aidan
  • Much more interesting is, that when I was there like 2 years ago,
    you will not receive a paper sheet with a number on it for phone credit
    as you would in germany.

    That was kinda confusing to me the first time.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    hico said: I will be in Turkey for 3 weeks SEP and OCT.

    Don't.

    Unless the Turkish government provides signed free passage or you hold a diplomatic passport NO ONE should at this time enter Turkey - Journalists and pretty much random foreigners with or without any negative AKP/Turkey commentary or Turkish heritage have been arrested, prevented contact with their embassies, jailed without any court process for months....

    VPN is the last of your worry there nowadays and using one worst case provides them with absolutely baseless but in their delusional gov normal reasoning to arrest or repress you.

    Turkey now has travel warnings from a lot of countries and in eg. Germany has pretty much the same status as Iran; avoid and the gov cannot guarantee support for any citizens.

    Thanked by 2pike szarka
  • emreemre Member, LIR

    hico said: I will be in Turkey for 3 weeks SEP and OCT.

    As we all say to tourists "welcome to Turkey" :D

    I have heard it is hard to get a simcard, is that true? And what is the best solution as I also have mobile 4G router I am fond of and share connections with my partner.

    It is not hard. Instead it is extremely easy, All you need is your passport. you will have your 4G (4.5G) enabled sim in just a few minutes.

    and believe it or not Turkish "4.5G" is way much faster than any other 4G connections in Europe,
    With a compatible phone I usually get over 100 Mbps Up/Down mostly in places such as in big shopping malls or city centers etc.

    Turkcell mobile operator have the best coverage and data lines. Prefer Turkcell.

    But data usage limits are very low, if money is not an issue you can always topup your sim with more GB's.

    VPNs necessary? I have a couple but in SE Asia so they may run slow but need to check gmail and FB for my wife.

    You generally do not need a VPN for daily standard internet usage.
    Gmail and facebook works without any problem.

    But if you really want to use a vpn for to reach some obscure internet pages use a vpn from Germany especially from Frankfurt.

    In any situation you will most likely to reach the world internet using Frankurt pop's in Frankfurt.

    Turkish Internet is pretty good. If you have a nice VPN from Frankfurt you will have around 40-50 ms ping times.

    Any suggestions appreciated, even things not mentioned as this will be my first trip to Turkey.

    And for extra suggestion: when you are in Turkey do not fear local cousine. We have got a very good different kind of meals and desserts here.

    Do not forget to try Turkish Baklava, Turkish Iskender Kebap, even Some Kokorec with hot ishot pepper :)

    Alchol beverages are quite expensive because of high taxes. But you can always drink very cheap Ayran (our national beverage) it goes well with Turkish Sish Kebap :)

    a- sim cards with data plan for phone

    b- data plan for mobile router

    c- VPNs- which work, which don't .... or what is suggested.

  • @William said:

    hico said: I will be in Turkey for 3 weeks SEP and OCT.

    Don't.

    Unless the Turkish government provides signed free passage or you hold a diplomatic passport NO ONE should at this time enter Turkey - Journalists and pretty much random foreigners with or without any negative AKP/Turkey commentary or Turkish heritage have been arrested, prevented contact with their embassies, jailed without any court process for months....

    VPN is the last of your worry there nowadays and using one worst case provides them with absolutely baseless but in their delusional gov normal reasoning to arrest or repress you.

    Turkey now has travel warnings from a lot of countries and in eg. Germany has pretty much the same status as Iran; avoid and the gov cannot guarantee support for any citizens.

    Bullshit. If you want to visit your family or have some sun&beach nothing is gonna happen to you, unless you have some anti government connections.

  • Just make sure you don't have a Tshirt contains HERO while you're in Turkey. You could be detained (for fcking real!) for wearing Hero or anything that contains HERO text in t-shirt. Welcome to Turkey, thanks to EU and USA for all their support for Erdogan so far, everything is smooth!

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    quick said: Bullshit. If you want to visit your family or have some sun&beach nothing is gonna happen to you, unless you have some anti government connections.

    Ah, Bullshit.

    I see.

    https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article162384647/Deniz-Yuecel-das-Haftprotokoll.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/27/journalist-for-german-newspaper-arrested-in-turkey

    Arrested with no court process, prevented contact with Embassy as German citizen, not allowed to write or contact outside jail (EVEN NORTH KOREA ALLOWS EMBASSY CONTACT, this is INTERNATIONAL LAW).

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/19/germany-urges-spain-not-to-extradite-erdogan-critic-to-turkey - German citizen arrested on false order to Interpol by Turkey in Spain (NOT A TURKISH CITIZEN!), for a crime he was PROVEN not in the country at the time and later CLARED OF ANY CHARGE BY A TURKISH COURT. This guy was visiting just his family, exactly in the example you have, before this, and has no other connection to Turkey aside of negative AKP/Erdogan writing which is 100% freedom of speech, especially in Germany.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/21/europe/germany-turkey-interpol/index.html

    And so on.

    Sure, go to Turkey, and the people are nice, but the gov is absolute shit and not to be trusted. And soon hopefully under full embargoes to ruin them, North Korea style.

    Don't complain if you never leave Turkey again, and don't complain if your embassy cannot help you. You have been warned.

    Aside that everything you spend is used to finance repressions against now more than 150000 fired government workers and THOUSANDS of people jailed with largely no evidence or court processing, under a decree that basically centralises power on a single person in a Saudi-Arabia style dictatorship.

    Welcome to Turkey 2017. Welcome to Erdogan.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/07/turkey-coup-suspects-brown-uniform-court-recep-tayyip-erdogan-hero-t-shirt - "Several people were detained afterwards for wearing the same shirt. At a rally on the anniversary of the coup last month"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/my-father-press-freedom-on-trial-turkey-europe-notice-cumhuriyet - "My father, Murat Sabuncu, is a truth-teller. He is the editor-in-chief of Cumhuriyet daily newspaper, which is one of the very few remaining critical but respected voices in the Turkish media. He and 11 of his colleagues from Cumhuriyet have been detained for the past nine months. Their trial will start in Istanbul on Monday." 9 months in jail without trial or charges.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/18/turkey-holds-six-rights-activists-on-charges-of-aiding-terror-group - "Amnesty International urged the British government to end its silence over Turkey’s slide into authoritarian rule on Tuesday after its local director and five other activists were remanded in custody on accusations of belonging to a terrorist organisation". Arrest Amnesty International personell. They even operate more freely in fucking Syria in Assad's regions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/15/turkey-sacks-over-7000-civil-servants-for-alleged-links-to-terror-groups

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/erdogan-supporters-attack-turkish-german-politicians-a-1164560.html - "Supporters of Turkish President Erdogan see them as traitors and try to intimidate them"

    http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/DE/Laenderinformationen/00-SiHi/Nodes/TuerkeiSicherheit_node.html - "Zuletzt waren in der Türkei in einigen Fällen Deutsche von freiheitsentziehenden Maßnahmen betroffen, deren Grund oder Dauer nicht nachvollziehbar war. Hierbei wurde teilweise der konsularische Zugang entgegen völkerrechtlichen Verpflichtungen verweigert"

    -> Recently German citizens have been arrested in Turkey for unknown reasons and unknown as well as unspecified duration while being prevented consular assistance [of the German embassy] against international law (the Vienna convention contains this).

    Want to argue? Disprove any of these as being rightful and democratic, or even not insanely authoritarian or you have no point. Going to Turkey is a risk, same as Iran.

  • @William said:

    quick said: Bullshit. If you want to visit your family or have some sun&beach nothing is gonna happen to you, unless you have some anti government connections.

    Ah, Bullshit.

    I see.

    https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article162384647/Deniz-Yuecel-das-Haftprotokoll.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/27/journalist-for-german-newspaper-arrested-in-turkey

    Arrested with no court process, prevented contact with Embassy as German citizen, not allowed to write or contact outside jail (EVEN NORTH KOREA ALLOWS EMBASSY CONTACT, this is INTERNATIONAL LAW).

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/19/germany-urges-spain-not-to-extradite-erdogan-critic-to-turkey - German citizen arrested on false order to Interpol by Turkey in Spain (NOT A TURKISH CITIZEN!), for a crime he was PROVEN not in the country at the time and later CLARED OF ANY CHARGE BY A TURKISH COURT. This guy was visiting just his family, exactly in the example you have, before this, and has no other connection to Turkey aside of negative AKP/Erdogan writing which is 100% freedom of speech, especially in Germany.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/21/europe/germany-turkey-interpol/index.html

    And so on.

    Sure, go to Turkey, and the people are nice, but the gov is absolute shit and not to be trusted. And soon hopefully under full embargoes to ruin them, North Korea style.

    Don't complain if you never leave Turkey again, and don't complain if your embassy cannot help you. You have been warned.

    Aside that everything you spend is used to finance repressions against now more than 150000 fired government workers and THOUSANDS of people jailed with largely no evidence or court processing, under a decree that basically centralises power on a single person in a Saudi-Arabia style dictatorship.

    Welcome to Turkey 2017. Welcome to Erdogan.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/07/turkey-coup-suspects-brown-uniform-court-recep-tayyip-erdogan-hero-t-shirt - "Several people were detained afterwards for wearing the same shirt. At a rally on the anniversary of the coup last month"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/my-father-press-freedom-on-trial-turkey-europe-notice-cumhuriyet - "My father, Murat Sabuncu, is a truth-teller. He is the editor-in-chief of Cumhuriyet daily newspaper, which is one of the very few remaining critical but respected voices in the Turkish media. He and 11 of his colleagues from Cumhuriyet have been detained for the past nine months. Their trial will start in Istanbul on Monday." 9 months in jail without trial or charges.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/18/turkey-holds-six-rights-activists-on-charges-of-aiding-terror-group - "Amnesty International urged the British government to end its silence over Turkey’s slide into authoritarian rule on Tuesday after its local director and five other activists were remanded in custody on accusations of belonging to a terrorist organisation". Arrest Amnesty International personell. They even operate more freely in fucking Syria in Assad's regions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/15/turkey-sacks-over-7000-civil-servants-for-alleged-links-to-terror-groups

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/erdogan-supporters-attack-turkish-german-politicians-a-1164560.html - "Supporters of Turkish President Erdogan see them as traitors and try to intimidate them"

    http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/DE/Laenderinformationen/00-SiHi/Nodes/TuerkeiSicherheit_node.html - "Zuletzt waren in der Türkei in einigen Fällen Deutsche von freiheitsentziehenden Maßnahmen betroffen, deren Grund oder Dauer nicht nachvollziehbar war. Hierbei wurde teilweise der konsularische Zugang entgegen völkerrechtlichen Verpflichtungen verweigert"

    -> Recently German citizens have been arrested in Germany for unknown reasons and unknown as well as unspecified duration while being prevented consular assistance [of German embassy] against international law (the Vienna convention contains this).

    Want to argue? Disprove any of these as being rightful and democratic, or even not insanely authoritarian or you have no point. Going to Turkey is a risk, same as Iran.

    As I told you, Einstein, if you have connections to anti-erdogan things, you fucked up.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    quick said: As I told you, Einstein, if you have connections to anti-erdogan things, you fucked up.

    You don't need to have any. Alone what i stated here would be enough to get arrested and has in cases. Same as spying by IDIB is proven in Germany for AKP. Thus criticism of Erdogan, AKP, the gov or even many other things is enough already.

    None of the arrested had any connections proven to anyone related to Gülen or any coup. If they had your court system would actually trial them, not let them rot in jail by "extensions" again done by decree in a fully authoritarian style. They can't, even after firing the judges and replacing them. This tells a LOT already. As does that your DIPLOMATS run and seek ASYLUM in their posted countries... yea, not even the North Koreans have this happen often.

    You cannot win against me here, you better stop to reply already, you have neither any points nor will anyone believe your propaganda even if you happen to do so yourself.

    As said: disprove my points. In a legitimate, legally sound, 100% verifiable way that any court in a sane country would require. Until then you have Saudi-Arabia 2.0 and nothing else, and you start to border to Burmese and Eritrean levels.

    Thanked by 3pike MasonR muratai
  • quick said: As I told you, Einstein, if you have connections to anti-erdogan things, you fucked up.

    Saying a country's dictator leader is shit shouldn't get you detained in jail for an indefinite amount of time.

  • quickquick Member
    edited August 2017

    @William said:

    quick said: As I told you, Einstein, if you have connections to anti-erdogan things, you fucked up.

    You don't need to have any. Alone what i stated here would be enough to get arrested and has in cases. Same as spying by IDIB is proven in Germany for AKP. Thus criticism of Erdogan, AKP, the gov or even many other things is enough already.

    None of the arrested had any connections proven to anyone related to Gülen or any coup. If they had your court system would actually trial them, not let them rot in jail by "extensions" again done by decree in a fully authoritarian style. They can't, even after firing the judges and replacing them. This tells a LOT already. As does that your DIPLOMATS run and seek ASYLUM in their posted countries... yea, not even the North Koreans have this happen often.

    You cannot win against me here, you better stop to reply already, you have neither any points nor will anyone believe your propaganda even if you happen to do so yourself.

    As said: disprove my points. In a legitimate, legally sound, 100% verifiable way that any court in a sane country would require. Until then you have Saudi-Arabia 2.0 and nothing else, and you start to border to Burmese and Eritrean levels.

    It is called DITIB.

    Well, how do you know that they are not related to mr G? Because, Spiegel tells you so?

    You can not prove it, I can not prove you much more.

    All I wanted to say is I do not love the leader, I do not hate him, too. I don't know why you guys keep comparing our "democracy" with EU or US standards. I voted during the last "yes / no" elections against him, but I mean 50% loves him we have to accept it, if you don't like his politics, do not act like we are forcing you to live here.

  • @Aidan said:

    quick said: As I told you, Einstein, if you have connections to anti-erdogan things, you fucked up.

    Saying a country's dictator leader is shit shouldn't get you detained in jail for an indefinite amount of time.

    Well, if you know, that this will bring you to jail, than just don't do it?

    Only because the half of Istanbul is in Europe doesn't mean that we are all have to act according to european standards.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    quick said: Well, how do you know that they are not related to mr G? Because, Spiegel tells you so?

    Because i am not dumb and know at least one person that was turned down at Ankara airport for Facebook posts, so take that. And this could have surely ended much worse, especially if he would have been Turkish citizen or not from a 1st world country.

    Further in the case of Yücel it is 100% sure because, now read very closely, he is anti Gülen.

    quick said: You can not prove it, I can not prove you much more.

    The burden of proof is on the government. This is fundamental part of every constitution. Your government does not provide proof or even court processes for again, thousands of arrested persons, both local and not citizens.

    This is, at the very least, not a fair trial in any way.

    quick said: Well, if you know, that this will bring you to jail, than just don't do it?

    There is no law for this. Jail for this is simply illegal and violates your own constitution that guarantees freedom of speech. Please go read your own constitution, at least once. There is a reason why modern schools in most countries teach their local one, especially in the US.

    Thus, this is again, at the very least, not a fair trial or even justified arrest.

    Lese majeste laws are fine, IF they are laws in actual words, not if randomly drawn up on the spot. Sure, they can go WAY too far (see Thailand) but at least are legally solid.

    This also clearly shows there was a turn from "democracy" to "dictatorship", because a democracy has no leader that such a law would affect, it is designed for a monarchy and yes, dictatorships.

    quick said: Only because the half of Istanbul is in Europe doesn't mean that we are all have to act according to european standards.

    Exactly. It also means you will never, ever, be an EU member (which YOU wanted to, not the EU, in the first place, so your point is NOT VALID anyway), i guarantee you that. And it also does not mean that the EU, or countries in it, cannot cut all trade with you or sanction your citizens and government and force their allies to do the same.

    You are free to do whatever down there in this sense, but you are not in any way entitled to complain about EU or other sanctions which a lot of Turks and especially your gov does.

    Erdogan dug Turkeys grave, like other leaders before, sure it will rise again but once more as military dictatorship and it might not become democratic anymore. Your excellent president tries to play regional power, cooperates with islamists, pisses on EU and US, then complains about being treated unfair while interfering in foreign elections, and this is not acceptable, he and by this sadly the citizens will pay for this. He will end up like Ceausescu, shot in a backyard.


    My point stands and is absolutely correct: Travel to Turkey is dangerous for everyone.

    Thanked by 1Aidan
  • WSSWSS Member

    I need to poop.

    Thanked by 1William
  • quickquick Member
    edited August 2017

    @William said:

    quick said: Well, how do you know that they are not related to mr G? Because, Spiegel tells you so?

    Because i am not dumb and know at least one person that was turned down at Ankara airport for Facebook posts, so take that. And this could have surely ended much worse, especially if he would have been Turkish citizen or not from a 1st world country.

    Further in the case of Yücel it is 100% sure because, now read very closely, he is anti Gülen.

    100 % legit, I am so statisfied. NOT, my dad is still walking around for his posts on fb and is not in jail.

    quick said: You can not prove it, I can not prove you much more.

    The burden of proof is on the government. This is fundamental part of every constitution. Your government does not provide proof or even court processes for again, thousands of arrested persons, both local and not citizens.

    This is, at the very least, not a fair trial in any way.

    I have to agree here.

    quick said: Well, if you know, that this will bring you to jail, than just don't do it?

    There is no law for this. Jail for this is simply illegal and violates your own constitution that guarantees freedom of speech. Please go read your own constitution, at least once. There is a reason why modern schools in most countries teach their local one, especially in the US.

    Thus, this is again, at the very least, not a fair trial or even justified arrest.

    Lese majeste laws are fine, IF they are laws in actual words, not if randomly drawn up on the spot. Sure, they can go WAY too far (see Thailand) but at least are legally solid.

    This also clearly shows there was a turn from "democracy" to "dictatorship", because a democracy has no leader that such a law would affect, it is designed for a monarchy and yes, dictatorships.

    Here, freedom of speech has limits, everybody knows it, you should know it after Böhmermann, too.

    I am not happy about it, too, it is also the economic situation which worries me, dollar is over 3.60 & euro is >4 lira, but the truth is the majority of this country loves him and accets him like this. Handle it.

    >

    quick said: Only because the half of Istanbul is in Europe doesn't mean that we are all have to act according to european standards.

    Exactly. It also means you will never, ever, be an EU member (which YOU wanted to, not the EU, in the first place, so your point is NOT VALID anyway), i guarantee you that. And it also does not mean that the EU, or countries in it, cannot cut all trade with you or sanction your citizens and government and force their allies to do the same.

    Thanks for clearing this up, you destroyed my dreams :(
    Well since weeks your governments has not shown a sign of balls.
    Can't wait to see my country opening the borders for the refugees. Sure europe would enjoy it :)

    You are free to do whatever down there in this sense, but you are not in any way entitled to complain about EU or other sanctions which a lot of Turks and especially your gov does.

    Erdogan dug Turkeys grave, like other leaders before, sure it will rise again but once more as military dictatorship and it might not become democratic anymore. Your excellent president tries to play regional power, cooperates with islamists, pisses on EU and US, then complains about being treated unfair while interfering in foreign elections, and this is not acceptable, he and by this sadly the citizens will pay for this. He will end up like Ceausescu, shot in a backyard.

    Yes, sounds correct, points I agree with you. Doesn't the eu and us started supporting these terrorists for ex. in syria? I know this is a problematic topic, but you can not act like the only bad guy in this role is Turkey.

    Your politicians said in the last referendum "vote against dictatorship" (referring to vote for a "no" which I also did) so this is not interfering in foreign elections, why is this acceptable?

    I don't love that guy either, but he is our elected president, you love it or not, you have to respect that. If not, write your hatespeech on fb and stay at home.


    My point stands and is absolutely correct: Travel to Turkey is dangerous for everyone.

    Everyone, who insists on european understanding of freedom of speech, true.

  • pikepike Veteran

    @quick said:

    Doesn't the eu and us started supporting these terrorists for ex. in syria?

    Turkey supported the IS with weapons and money not the EU.

  • quickquick Member
    edited August 2017

    @pike said:

    @quick said:

    Doesn't the eu and us started supporting these terrorists for ex. in syria?

    Turkey supported the IS with weapons and money not the EU.

    Oh, another middle east specialist. I never claimed turkey didn't or did.

    Just imagine little guy, your governments supported the "moderate" jihadis, until they renamed them to IS.

    It is wrong to show on one nation with the finger and say it is your fault. It is complicated and everyone wants to benefit out of it.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    quick said: Here, freedom of speech has limits, everybody knows it, you should know it after Böhmermann, too.

    Böhmermann was not convicted of anything. What he did was defined as free speech even if very border area, just the re-use of certain parts was forbidden in public. If your media reports anything else they lie.

    And no, your constitution - i actually put it into a translate tool which seems pretty well - has no limits. It guarantees freedom of speech. There is no lese majeste law, thus criticism and even more against the gov and Erdogan are not crimes.

    quick said: I am not happy about it, too, it is also the economic situation which worries me, dollar is over 3.60 & euro is >4 lira, but the truth is the majority of this country loves him and accets him like this. Handle it.

    And i hope it will go down more. FAR more. Your economy needs to be hurt massively to put your gov out of business, this is how an embargo works.

    quick said: Well since weeks your governments has not shown a sign of balls

    I am not German. Or European ancestry for that matter, i hold dual citizenship of an EU country and one near you, the one with the democracy, in fact the practically only one in the entire region.

    quick said: Doesn't the eu and us started supporting these terrorists for ex. in syria?

    It is proven your gov sent weapons directly to ISIS. The EU never did anything like this, neither did the US or Russia. We send weapons to the kurds in Syria - the YPG - which is NOT a terrorist group in international law in any way, and neither are the moderate rebels.

    Your military also, right at this moment, draws troops at the Syrian border for another "incursion" against international law (Syria is de facto a nation state, invading it is a declaration of war).

    You did this once before and pretty much got destroyed by the YPG (which is not even a country) and everyone in Syria aside of ISIS is your enemy, you are not wanted there and should not be there.

    And the Kurdish state is a reality, deal with it, you have no chance to prevent this anymore - they ACTUALLY do something useful in Syria and Iraq, unlike you with, like, uh, weapon deliveries to ISIS...

    quick said: Your politicians said in the last referendum "vote against dictatorship" (referring to vote for a "no" which I also did) so this is not interfering in foreign elections, why is this acceptable?

    Again, i am not German. And "vote against dictatorship" is WAY different from "this party will destroy Turkey and remove you from Germany". One is a lie, and one is true, even you see which one is which.

    quick said: I don't love that guy either, but he is our elected president, you love it or not, you have to respect that. If not, write your hatespeech on fb and stay at home.

    You can be absolutely sure I will never enter Turkey unless i get a diplomatic passport or have to as part of a military operation of my country.

    quick said: Everyone, who insists on european understanding of freedom of speech, true.

    No, everyone. As noted your gov is known to fabricate "proof" as they want and does not provide any fair trials. This means EVERYONE is at danger, and this can happen to EVERYONE not traveling with diplomatic immunity.

  • pike said: Turkey supported the IS with weapons and money not the EU.

    ISIS was everyone's bitch.
    Everybody supported one part in ISIS and used them for their interest.
    Now, it's time for trash.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    surfcu said: ISIS was everyone's bitch. Everybody supported one part in ISIS and used them for their interest. Now, it's time for trash.

    Only Turkey is proven to have delivered weapons to them, fully knowing who it is, at a time where they already committed various war crimes. No one else.

    Sure, everyone sells to either the rebels or Assad, but neither of these are recognised as terrorist groups at this time or sanctioned as far to forbid this (exception: Al-Nusra).


    Regardless of all of this, my point is still absolutely true:

    Travel to Turkey is dangerous, the government is unpredictable and known to fabricate evidence or outright lie and violate the rights of dual citizens (and obviously locals even worse, but international laws for dual). You can be jailed de-facto indefinitely with no trial or proof of any crime, which has happened. If there is any trial it cannot be considered fair in any way. Any cent spent goes to the same gov that enables and continues this.

  • @surfcu said:

    pike said: Turkey supported the IS with weapons and money not the EU.

    ISIS was everyone's bitch.
    Everybody supported one part in ISIS and used them for their interest.
    Now, it's time for trash.

    No, it is not true BS, because media which is controlled by williams country did not approve it xD

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    quick said: No, it is not true BS, because media which is controlled by williams country did not approve it xD

    Do you actually believe you did not deliver weapons to ISIS?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Organisation_scandal_in_Turkey

    Proven. Independently. Cumhuriyet has video recordings even of what was shipped. You have sent weapons to war criminals regarded as terrorist group in any country, over an international border you had no permission to cross (a declaration of war).

    So, what is your personal excuse why your gov should and did do this? And why do you support this people? Do you want ISIS rule in Turkey? I'm sure that can be arranged.

    Thanked by 1pike
  • quickquick Member
    edited August 2017

    @William said:

    quick said: Here, freedom of speech has limits, everybody knows it, you should know it after Böhmermann, too.

    Böhmermann was not convicted of anything. What he did was defined as free speech even if very border area, just the re-use of certain parts was forbidden in public. If your media reports anything else they lie.

    And no, your constitution - i actually put it into a translate tool which seems pretty well - has no limits. It guarantees freedom of speech. There is no lese majeste law, thus criticism and even more against the gov and Erdogan are not crimes.

    quick said: I am not happy about it, too, it is also the economic situation which worries me, dollar is over 3.60 & euro is >4 lira, but the truth is the majority of this country loves him and accets him like this. Handle it.

    And i hope it will go down more. FAR more. Your economy needs to be hurt massively to put your gov out of business, this is how an embargo works.

    >

    Yea, I give it max 5 years too.

    quick said: Well since weeks your governments has not shown a sign of balls

    I am not German. Or European ancestry for that matter, i hold dual citizenship of an EU country and one near you, the one with the democracy, in fact the practically only one in the entire region.

    I assume the ones who lived in ghettos, which are building now new ghettos within the middle east :)

    quick said: Doesn't the eu and us started supporting these terrorists for ex. in syria?

    It is proven your gov sent weapons directly to ISIS. The EU never did anything like this, neither did the US or Russia. We send weapons to the kurds in Syria - the YPG - which is NOT a terrorist group in international law in any way, and neither are the moderate rebels.

    Your military also, right at this moment, draws troops at the Syrian border for another "incursion" against international law (Syria is de facto a nation state, invading it is a declaration of war).

    Pathetic, that you talk in 2017 from invading and war rules...

    You did this once before and pretty much got destroyed by the YPG (which is not even a country) and everyone in Syria aside of ISIS is your enemy, you are not wanted there and should not be there.

    Ok, message received, I will immediately pull out my troops from there. Dude, I am a citizen, not the military commander. Calm down.

    We got destroyed according to them, you got destroyed by HB, too, according to them. So what?

    And the Kurdish state is a reality, deal with it, you have no chance to prevent this anymore - they ACTUALLY do something useful in Syria and Iraq, unlike you with, like, uh, weapon deliveries to ISIS...

    I wouldn't have a problem with that, letting them having a state.

    quick said: Your politicians said in the last referendum "vote against dictatorship" (referring to vote for a "no" which I also did) so this is not interfering in foreign elections, why is this acceptable?

    Again, i am not German. And "vote against dictatorship" is WAY different from "this party will destroy Turkey and remove you from Germany". One is a lie, and one is true, even you see which one is which.

    Hehe, when you don't like the answer "i am not a german" but playing the lawyer of germany, pathetic.

    quick said: I don't love that guy either, but he is our elected president, you love it or not, you have to respect that. If not, write your hatespeech on fb and stay at home.

    You can be absolutely sure I will never enter Turkey unless i get a diplomatic passport or have to as part of a military operation of my country.

    Diplomatic passport for setting up ubuntu maybe xD
    Yea your military is good in bombing civilians with phosporic bombs, I believe you that.

    quick said: Everyone, who insists on european understanding of freedom of speech, true.

    No, everyone. As noted your gov is known to fabricate "proof" as they want and does not provide any fair trials. This means EVERYONE is at danger, and this can happen to EVERYONE not traveling with diplomatic immunity.

    Here we have a saying which means translated:

    If the prayer of the dogs became true, it would rain bones from the skies.

    With this saying enjoy your life, cool brain bro.

  • @William said:

    quick said: No, it is not true BS, because media which is controlled by williams country did not approve it xD

    Do you actually believe you did not deliver weapons to ISIS?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_National_Intelligence_Organisation_scandal_in_Turkey

    Proven. Independently. Cumhuriyet has video recordings even of what was shipped. You have sent weapons to war criminals regarded as terrorist group in any country, over an international border you had no permission to cross (a declaration of war).

    So, what is your personal excuse why your gov should and did do this? And why do you support this people? Do you want ISIS rule in Turkey? I'm sure that can be arranged.

    I am sure you have a lack for reading & understanding. I said multiple times in my quotes what I think about it.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2017

    quick said: I assume the ones who lived in ghettos, which are building now new ghettos within the middle east :)

    Correction: The country that has a working economy and in fact elections. That are even defined as fair by the arab league.

    quick said: Pathetic, that you talk in 2017 from invading and war rules...

    hm? This does not change at any time. Sending weapons over an international border into another country without permission is, as simple as that, a declaration of war. This is defined since well over 500 years.

    quick said: Hehe, when you don't like the answer "i am not a german" but playing the lawyer of germany, pathetic.

    I don't. I absolutely despise Germany, and most Germans, for various reasons. I defend no one here, this is simple the truth. Truth needs no defending.

    quick said: Diplomatic passport for setting up ubuntu maybe xD Yea you are good in bombing civilians with phosporic bombs, I believe you that.

    The IDF has no phosphor bombs, they are used by Russia only nowadays. Get your facts straight if you try to seem intelligent. Further usage of them is, at this time, not a war crime anyway.

    quick said: With this saying enjoy your life, cool brain bro.

    Considering i do not need to fear for my life, earn a lot of money in a currency that actually is worth something, can leave and go as i desire to anywhere... i do, i guess?

    In fact, if you are so sure that everything is fine, why do you not send me your name? We can then see in barely a few hours how far "democracy" goes in Turkey, and if i lie to them about something you did there should be an absolutely fair trial that defines you are innocent, right?

    And you will not get any issues, right? Like in any democratic state with an independent judicial system, right?

This discussion has been closed.