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Hey Giovanni,
first off, why is there no tl;dr? XD
Anyway, it sounds like a harsh story, wondering about @Verelox's reply on this, yet wondering why in https://giovannimounir.net/archive/10617/e14.png he states something about "changing root passwords", so were you trying to lock the hypervisors or the server for the control panel?
Elseway, why did they claim that all data was lost in first place, did they only look into the Cloud-Panel VM (like, not checking another server), and not looking into the others? Not competent enough?
It appears on evidence #4 that you still had access to Verelox databases, etc. ("adding time") even when the control panel wasn't there?
Also, what about these "backdoors" they were talking about? Was the reason for that, that it seems that you only had access to the Cloud-Panel server and were able to wipe this or is there something more to this?
Also, https://giovannimounir.net/archive/10617/b1.png is not available, mind checking this?
(Btw, self-quotes look quite meh like this, you might possibly want show this in another way?)
The root passwords referred to in the message are basically the root passwords of verelox.com and cloud.verelox.com servers. Unfortunately, Mr. Soekhradj tried to lock me out of these servers earlier before I was paid the control panel and previous years amount, and he changed these passwords and I had no access by that time, but fortunately, I had a PC that was kept connected to the cloud.verelox.com VM, which I used to reset the password. The cloud.verelox.com had control over the whole network and all passwords were stored there - even if you had to update the root password, you needed to store the new passwords there, so that the panel can connect and do "root-specific or superuser tasks" when required. Since the panel and websites were basically mine, as they were developed by me and never paid for, I retrieved the passwords for verelox.com and changed the root passwords then took a backup; I therefore reserved the rights to take the panel or website down anytime. These servers remained under my control until Vishaal decided to take down the network, at which point the cloud.verelox.com server was wiped once it came online (e #3) since I was denied the payment.
The database and all user data (usernames/invoices/etc) were stored only on the cloud VM. The fact is that there is no "they", but there was only Vishaal by that point since I left with the previous support team; note that the "data loss" claim was put on the website after I sent the database to Vishaal so that he can recover the customers on a new panel (explained in article), so I see it in no other way than that either he was lying to justify the downtime, or the loss is referred to the control panel server, but I do not think the latter can be the case since the website explicitly stated "Unfortunately, an ex administrator has deleted all customer data and wiped most servers." (see web.archive) - so we will have to go with #1 for now. :-)
Yes, as I explained in the article and above, I had a backup of the database already, so I sent that. Please note that the database backup was taken on 7 July and the server was terminated 9 July IIRC, so user details between that time would have been removed, but not the server data as claimed by the website.
As I explained in the Skype message, there were no backdoors at all. The way I was able to recover the cloud.verelox.com to my use was solely through the PC that was kept connected to the control panel server.
I had access to all servers through the cloud.verelox.com server, but I only took down what was mine and I do not think it is right that Vishaal took down the network to protect the panel from its owner; if anything, this can be only labelled as an attempt to scam.
Whoops! My bad, it should be up now.
I know, and I do not actually like self-quotes, but I wrote the article from a different perspective so that readers can know who said the quote, since I quote the verelox website as well. And besides that, I thought the quote on top would make things more interesting so that people would actually enjoy reading the article. :-)
@GiovanniM The company is pretty much destroyed from the looks of it, as the owner/CEO/what-ever-the-fuck-he-is has zilch technical skills. I can assume there was no private GIT repository where all of the code was kept(including the panel), let alone any CI/Documentation on the web panel. In other words, the only person that knows about the ins-and-out of the panel is you, because you are the sole coder to this panel.
As far as I can tell, the owner/CEO/what-ever-the-fuck-he-is is a straight dumb-ass because if he had even a single ounce of intelligence, he would have never given you the keys to production and would have required that every single line of code was put into a GIT which he could control.
Besides, he pretty much fucked you over(according to what you are saying because at this point is a he-said-he-said situation) without even realizing you held the keys to the whole company infrastructure. He has no access to the code, or a way to replicate your panel in a different environment. Plus, he didn't even keep backup offsite for his clients?
What kind of company is this shit hole? I keep all of my important data in at-least 3 different S3 compatible storage services(1 being S3). It costs me few $$ dollars a month, but I know everything is safe if shit happens and I lose my data.
All I can say is that, if you were smart enough to code a panel from scratch and worked for free for a few years, then you could have easily started your own web hosting company. On top of that, everybody was sad when the owner/CEO/what-ever-the-fuck-he-is mentioned that you were not with the company anymore. You were literally the face of the company, after this whole ordeal is done, you should try to start your own web hosting company and learn from this experience.
owner/CEO/what-ever-the-fuck-he-is is just trying to intimidate you with the whole Dutch police comment.
Ok @GiovanniM so you decided to be all court, jury and the executioner rather than taking a legal case against them ?
I think you have just self-incriminated yourself and you should consider taking a legal advice before continuing.
Either way, if you want to continue, be my guest. I'm sure @Jarland will be happy with rising visitor numbers thanks to this unnecessary drama.
Is that really any different from what (the remainder of) Verelox has done, though? I don't see either party fighting it out in court.
That's not to say that "get legal advice" isn't good advice, but I feel it's a bit unreasonable to target @GiovanniM specifically here.
That is an interesting comment, but I do not consider myself to be any of the things you mentioned. This is more about raising awareness since Verelox decided to mention my name and respond to me on Twitter (EDIT: with that "Dutch police" vague statement) than anything else, and I do not expect anything in return.
I do not believe I have self-incriminated myself and I do not think I can be held guilty of any criminal activity. If you are concerned about me taking down the control panel, you can refer to proof #2 since it was a mutual agreement that I can take down the panel anytime. Everything from my side was authorized, legal and without surprises.
My pain point is not the panel but admission to change root passwords without authorisation. If I were to build a case, I'd start from here.
Anyway, I don't mind the popcorn, I don't have a stake here at all.
Enjoy ! :-).
Actually, if you read that article, the root passwords were changed by Vishaal, as previously explained, without authorization in an attempt to lock me out of the panel, although we had an agreement that the panel is mine and I reserve access rights as long as it is unpaid for; I believe this is also something common reasoning implies. I explained in the previous comments that all I did was to reset the control panel password and regain access since I essentially like people to stick to their agreements. :-)
We will have to differ here.. I do not actually like popcorn.
Edit:
P.S @IAlwaysBeCoding to prevent misunderstanding, I started this company with Vishaal in 2014; the company name and logo are mine. The problem is not with starting your own company; the problem is choosing the wrong partner.
The company was actually founded in 2014 by Vishaal. Giovanni was not involved when Verelox started. Later on Giovanni started making WHMCS modules for Verelox which was payed for. After this Giovanni was a system administrator and developer for Verelox. All his claims about being a CEO of Verelox are not true.
Giovanni where is your name?
https://www.kvk.nl/orderstraat/bedrijf-kiezen/?q=verelox#!shop?&q=verelox&start=0&prefproduct=&prefpayment=
Do you have any proof of your ownership of Verelox, any transactions for investments or anything else?
.
Lets stop this discussion here if you want to continue this discussion please come to the Netherlands and we will discuss this in the Dutch court. We will pay your ticket and hotel
Uh, just wanted to mention it's kinda hard to extract information about the owner from this as your ministry interstingly seems to charge for taking a look into, can't speak Dutch therefore might be overlooking something, but would you mind making a screenshot of the entry for us, so we can see what you are refering to?
In other words, pay your damn bills.
Francisco
We aren't legally obligated to share this information, however you can view it your self at the link posted above.
Tempted to spend the money to get the doc with all info. On second thought, couldn't care less as that document might be outdated anyway. If verelox decides to post the full doc though I'd be more than happy to verify it.
Let's also hear that Vishaal came up with the name, logo and everything else. Giovanni never received any payment from Verelox. Provide a proof of transaction "if you want to continue this discussion". :-)
I can provide a proof for my claims (exchanges over Freelancer - that is when I first met him):
http://imgur.com/a/s4pWq
It is funny that you mention Giovanni claims being untrue because it would make no sense for Giovanni in that case to hold the company registration files for both NL and US (and perhaps a photo of Vishaal's ID too
) .. at least I gave you some credit. 
We all know the reason why Giovanni's name is not on KVK and it is basically because Giovanni made a mistake by approving a new team mate, "Djoties", which Vishaal used afterwards to hijack the company by secretly signing unapproved contracts, but I do not need to get into that now.. or do I? (chat logs available)
But since you know a lot about Giovanni, could you explain in that case:
If I was a company CEO and gave a developer such access, I might as well go hang myself, but the fact is that the "developer" required such access because he was the one basically operating the company.
That's kind of you. I can take care of myself but since all you can do is lie, I can guarantee that I'm not interested in your all-words-null-actions; you are not worth the trouble. The fact is that you have no evidence to backup your claims and therefore is forced to publicly lie; I'm sure you would have provided them long ago otherwise. :-)
You can check that file at https://giovannimounir.net/archive/10617/65698738.pdf as of April 12. I never saw my name there and mentioned this to Vishaal twice but I did not mind since Vishaal's name was already there, although I had full control over the company and I probably made 80% of the decisions.
I hope @Verelox can address all of the other claims in a reasonable approach.
P.S same goes for the logo. The "V" letter is basically Genosa font mixed with Seoge UI IIRC for the rest of the letters. :-)
Not worth the hassle. Just start a company and modify your custom panel a bit. I'll signup for a KVM VPS certainly.
What he/they have done to you was plain horrible and disgusting. You really should consider starting a company yourself.
Giovanni what is your point to get it here?
If you feel you are in your right then come to Netherlands, we are giving you flight ticket and sponsor for visa everything to come here and provide us wrong.
Maybe all the ppl that responding here they don't know, we can't provide all the proof here, this is something between 2 ppl, We are not child to fight on forum.
That's a very dodgy statement. Yes, you can view it yourself, if you register an account with the chamber of commerce, and wait two or more days for the access code to arrive by snail mail, and pay for the data.
Evidently you have access to the data, so why not screenshot it and post it here in good faith? "Legally obligated" or not is besides the point here; you're making a statement for which you claim evidence exists, and point at a difficult-to-access venue for seeing it - refusing to save people the effort and showing it upfront doesn't exactly make you look good.
Instead, it makes you look like you're trying to hide something, by throwing up barriers.
This doesn't need to be adjudicated in Dutch court; LET Court is most competent in these matters and we can appoint @jarland or someone equally reputable as judge and start compelling testimony right away.
And what is wrong about "getting it here"? You should have nothing to fear if you are "in your right." :-)
The point is if what I said is true, people should be very careful with their data around that company since what happens explains how trustworthy you could be.
Oh please, the people here know everything.
I'm not a child but I'm certain you are if all you can say is "come to Netherlands", "let's talk in the Dutch court" and "these claims are untrue" without providing any reasonable response. Do you expect to hold up in a court if you cannot hold up on a forum, or is that what you usually say when you feel threatened?
I'm not fighting, I'm just waiting for the:
I suppose that a person who lies constantly either has compulsive lying disorder or it could be a classic case of Alzheimer, but that's OK because I'm happy to help you remember. :-)
Document seems to be legit. Doesn't really prove anything though as it will typically only state the CEOs or whatever it would translate to in English but doesn't really say much about who owns the company. Thank you for your transparency!
The persons after "Bestuurders" are the persons who are listed at the Kamer van Koophandel (KvK; Chambers of Commerce), thus: Vishaal and Djotiesperkaas are the persons who have full power (see: "Alleen/zelfstandig bevoegd"; this means, can do whatever they want on behalf of the company without permission of anyone else).
Little odd they only valued their company €2,-... (see: "Gestort kapitaal")
Thanks for sharing this file @GiovanniM, already tempted to buy.. A shame the KvK dares to charge us for those information :')
That file indeed proves that Giovanni was not part of the legal entity in form of a shareholder/proprietor.
From what has been said it is to be assumed that giovanni did not agree esp. on founding that dutch company (without him) BUT if there were no (written) contracts between him and vishaal there won't be much to judge pro or against.
Seems like vishaal simply stepped forward founding a business at some point which was not agreed to by his former friend/partner and later giovanni eventually found out. In the end both went kind of rogue at least about the intellectual property.
from the age and name of that second proprietor in that document I wouldn't be surprised to see that being kind of family business there - just a wild guess.
Not really. It's the "bestuur" who represents the shareholders who are in fact the owner of the BV. They're not listed on the document. The "bestuur" listed could be the sole shareholders but that should be notorised as far as I'm aware.
The only thing the document does verify is that the people listed there had the right to make decisions but only acting in name of the shareholders.
Added:
Come to thing about it, if he can make a case proofing that he is a co-owner/shareholder he would actually stand a good chance suing both the BV and the members of the board personally.
Added:
Checked some additional posted proof. Not sure if there's some real money in the BV but if he really owns the logo, backend etc there's some serious money to be pursued for copyright infringement/intellectual property theft, even if he's not being marked as co-owner/shareholder.
If Giovanni really thinks he can proof what he claims it'd be definitely worth it to sue them.
That's common within EU at least. Our company was created with a 100 EUR capital, though the initial investment was about 50x that.
Doesn't tell anything about te company itself.
>
nonsense. If you invest 50x 100EUR into company then initial capital is 5000EUR and you pay your costs out of it. If you don't have funds you put 1EUR or 100EUR depending on EU state member regulations.