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How cheap of a VPS comes with a dedicated IPV4? And other n00b questions
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How cheap of a VPS comes with a dedicated IPV4? And other n00b questions

GuyGregGuyGreg Member

I'm new here so please pardon me if I'm asking a stupid question but:

I see offers for VPSes of all different prices, down to very cheap. I would like to be able to run a mail server, just for me and a few friends to have private email. For that to be realistic, I need to have a dedicated IP address (otherwise someone else may be using it for spam and I'll never be able to keep my mail server off of blacklists, regardless of me using SPF/DKIM. And I want to be able to have rDNS match.)
Ads for VPSes always say "includes 1 IPV4 address" but rarely say whether it's dedicated or shared. How cheap a price is "too cheap" so you already know there's no way it includes your own IP?
Also, are these cheap plans going to give me full control, or do they tend to come with rules like "can't have more than 3 active email addresses/FTP accounts"? Is a $12/yr. box a gimmick or are you free to actually use it (as best you can with so little RAM and CPU)?
Obviously they won't have cPanel, so what kind of control panel does a low-end box come with?

If there are links I should read to learn this stuff, point me at them. Thanks.

Comments

  • WSSWSS Member

    If they say "Includes 1 IPv4" address, that usually means it's yours, unless NAT is included.

    As far as their network block is, you may be just as poor with your IP if they've got a /24 or higher of bad customers.

    CPanel and other 'web hosts' often lock you down on accounts and domains. For a VPS, you generally get the OS you choose, and the rest if up to you- email, http, everything.. If you're lucky, they'll let you install an OS with ISPConfig/Webmin/etc preinstalled.

    I have several <$10/yr VPS and they serve me well as backups for DNS and MX.

    Basically, a VPS is the same as a toaster: No userlevel-servicable pieces inside.

    Thanked by 1AuroraZ
  • GuyGreg said: I see offers for VPSes of all different prices, down to very cheap. I would like to be able to run a mail server, just for me and a few friends to have private email.

    One point to note, before you sign-up, check with the provider whether there are any ports blocked. Offers may/may not say that port 25 is blocked and you will have to confirm.

  • edited April 2017

    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

  • trewqtrewq Administrator, Patron Provider

    @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Or mxroute (see sig)

  • @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    The buyshared people are also the buyvm people. And they offer a different product called a "slice":

    https://buyvm.net/kvm-dedicated-server-slices

    1. What's the difference between a slice and a VPS?
    2. They say:

    Free Microsoft® Windows Server™
    We include Microsoft® Windows Server™ with all Slice plans at no additional cost. Select from 2008 R2 and 2012 R2 Windows Server™ from within our control panel.

    So are these Windows-only products?

  • RadiRadi Host Rep, Veteran

    A slice is a VPS.

  • trewqtrewq Administrator, Patron Provider

    GuyGreg said: What's the difference between a slice and a VPS?

    They say:
    Free Microsoft® Windows Server™ We include Microsoft® Windows Server™ with all Slice plans at no additional cost. Select from 2008 R2 and 2012 R2 Windows Server™ from within our control panel.

    So are these Windows-only products?

    It's just a KVM VPS as such it can run most OSs. They can give you Windows for free with the VPS where as most other providers charge extra for it.

    Slice is just a nice branding term.

    Thanked by 1johnnymatt
  • RamiRami Member

    @GuyGreg as long as they didn't say it is NAT vps and they said that it includes ipv4 then it's dedicated IP (check if port 25 is not blocked)

    But it will be better to go with shard cpanel hosting

  • pbgbenpbgben Member, Host Rep

    @WSS said:
    If they say "Includes 1 IPv4" address, that usually means it's yours, unless NAT is included.

    As far as their network block is, you may be just as poor with your IP if they've got a /24 or higher of bad customers.

    CPanel and other 'web hosts' often lock you down on accounts and domains. For a VPS, you generally get the OS you choose, and the rest if up to you- email, http, everything.. If you're lucky, they'll let you install an OS with ISPConfig/Webmin/etc preinstalled.

    I have several <$10/yr VPS and they serve me well as backups for DNS and MX.

    Basically, a VPS is the same as a toaster: No userlevel-servicable pieces inside.

    Userlevel indeed. You can be damn sure I'll be inside that bitch like Nekki's sister if it fails to chooch... Crumpets need toastin!

    Thanked by 1DewlanceVPS
  • @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Wouldn't recommend this. I'm currently moving all of my email off buyshared as it just goes to spam/junk folders. Tried everything but for some reason GMail and Hotmail just dump the email

    SPF, DKIM, even a PTR record set up by them and all of it has made 0 difference. It's rather frustrating!

    Using the same domains on a different company is working perfectly go figure

  • edited April 2017

    @lukehebb said:

    @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Wouldn't recommend this. I'm currently moving all of my email off buyshared as it just goes to spam/junk folders. Tried everything but for some reason GMail and Hotmail just dump the email

    SPF, DKIM, even a PTR record set up by them and all of it has made 0 difference. It's rather frustrating!

    Using the same domains on a different company is working perfectly go figure

    That is very surprising. I've been on a BuyVM 128MB VPS for years with only reverse DNS set and have had no deliverability issues.

    @Francisco ?

  • @rajprakash said:

    @lukehebb said:

    @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Wouldn't recommend this. I'm currently moving all of my email off buyshared as it just goes to spam/junk folders. Tried everything but for some reason GMail and Hotmail just dump the email

    SPF, DKIM, even a PTR record set up by them and all of it has made 0 difference. It's rather frustrating!

    Using the same domains on a different company is working perfectly go figure

    That is very surprising. I've been on a BuyVM 128MB VPS for years with only reverse DNS set and have had no deliverability issues.

    @Francisco ?

    To be honest its very likely Hotmail/GMail being arses. I'm very happy with my VZ VPS with buyvm and have no plans on moving away from them for cheap, good performing servers any time soon

    Thanked by 1Francisco
  • @trewq said:

    @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Or mxroute (see sig)

    cool link lol

    Thanked by 1trewq
  • easyeasy Member

    a good read to understand limitations for vps services.

    TOS & AUP from virmach https://virmach.com/terms-conditions#tab1

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @lukehebb said:

    @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Wouldn't recommend this. I'm currently moving all of my email off buyshared as it just goes to spam/junk folders. Tried everything but for some reason GMail and Hotmail just dump the email

    SPF, DKIM, even a PTR record set up by them and all of it has made 0 difference. It's rather frustrating!

    Using the same domains on a different company is working perfectly go figure

    Already working on a fix for that. We're going to be adding mailchannels sometime in the next week or so, I just need to finish coding some webhooks so we don't get our ass handed to us when some $5/year user blasts a million spam emails.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 2lukehebb lazyt
  • @Francisco said:

    @lukehebb said:

    @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Wouldn't recommend this. I'm currently moving all of my email off buyshared as it just goes to spam/junk folders. Tried everything but for some reason GMail and Hotmail just dump the email

    SPF, DKIM, even a PTR record set up by them and all of it has made 0 difference. It's rather frustrating!

    Using the same domains on a different company is working perfectly go figure

    Already working on a fix for that. We're going to be adding mailchannels sometime in the next week or so, I just need to finish coding some webhooks so we don't get our ass handed to us when some $5/year user blasts a million spam emails.

    Francisco

    Is there any plan of enabling PHP mail?

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @jetchirag said:

    @Francisco said:

    @lukehebb said:

    @rajprakash said:
    You're better off with a $5/yr buyshared and host your email there

    Wouldn't recommend this. I'm currently moving all of my email off buyshared as it just goes to spam/junk folders. Tried everything but for some reason GMail and Hotmail just dump the email

    SPF, DKIM, even a PTR record set up by them and all of it has made 0 difference. It's rather frustrating!

    Using the same domains on a different company is working perfectly go figure

    Already working on a fix for that. We're going to be adding mailchannels sometime in the next week or so, I just need to finish coding some webhooks so we don't get our ass handed to us when some $5/year user blasts a million spam emails.

    Francisco

    Is there any plan of enabling PHP mail?

    It's always going to be a whitelist thing. You need to realize that we average a few million blocked spam emails from compromised PHP sites a month, per node. I'm not going to pay a few grand a month to mailchannels/etc because people can't be bothered to ticket and ask for a whitelist per account.

    Francisco

  • @Francisco I remember that when I opened a ticket to enable Php Mail on an account. I got a clean "No".

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @jetchirag said:
    @Francisco I remember that when I opened a ticket to enable Php Mail on an account. I got a clean "No".

    Valentin is pretty against it since it usually leads to future issues/complaints like "I can't send mail from the primary IP because it's on a trillion blacklists".

    If the person proves to me that they're competent enough to keep their stuff secure we can whitelist accounts. Cascading (all of a resellers users) isn't possible.

    Francisco

  • @Francisco said:

    @jetchirag said:
    @Francisco I remember that when I opened a ticket to enable Php Mail on an account. I got a clean "No".

    Valentin is pretty against it since it usually leads to future issues/complaints like "I can't send mail from the primary IP because it's on a trillion blacklists".

    If the person proves to me that they're competent enough to keep their stuff secure we can whitelist accounts. Cascading (all of a resellers users) isn't possible.

    Francisco

    To be honest I've always advised against it and told people to use SMTP anyway. It's not that hard to set up these days (many PHP classes for it) and it offers some benefits (I've seen recipient servers flat-out block anything with PHP headers that get attached from mail(); for example)

    Also great to hear you are working on adding mailchannels. I'll keep an eye on it and maybe shift things back once its up and running and everything is stable. The price is just astounding, with only a few little (but important) things like hotmail and google being arses (my dedicated IP from you guys is on no blacklists, in the feedback loops, everything but they're still being stupid and offer 0 support whatsoever!)

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    lukehebb said: (my dedicated IP from you guys is on no blacklists, in the feedback loops, everything but they're still being stupid and offer 0 support whatsoever!)

    Yeah, you're not the first to say that.

    All I can think is that the primary IP is affecting the reputation of the whole block. Excessive if so, but that's the spam life I guess.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1AuroraZ
  • GuyGregGuyGreg Member
    edited April 2017

    So I can rent something from buyshared, implement SPF and DKIM, and even after the domain is not on any BLs my IP is still going to be blocked? My company's mailserver is on a VPS and we've had a couple issues at the start (we were on an internal BL at AOL, but we wrote them and after a few days they took us off) but we get through to everywhere. I read the wikipedia on "mailchannels" but what does that mean--you send your outgoing mail to them and they wash it for you and certify it clean and then other recipients accept it?

  • @GuyGreg said:
    So I can rent something from buyshared, implement SPF and DKIM, and even after the domain is not on any BLs my IP is still going to be blocked? My company's mailserver is on a VPS and we've had a couple issues at the start (we were on an internal BL at AOL, but we wrote them and after a few days they took us off) but we get through to everywhere. I read the wikipedia on "mailchannels" but what does that mean--you send your outgoing mail to them and they wash it for you and certify it clean and then other recipients accept it?

    Yes

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @GuyGreg said:
    So I can rent something from buyshared, implement SPF and DKIM, and even after the domain is not on any BLs my IP is still going to be blocked? My company's mailserver is on a VPS and we've had a couple issues at the start (we were on an internal BL at AOL, but we wrote them and after a few days they took us off) but we get through to everywhere. I read the wikipedia on "mailchannels" but what does that mean--you send your outgoing mail to them and they wash it for you and certify it clean and then other recipients accept it?

    It isn't guaranteed. Most people are just fine, some aren't.

    Still, we're looking to get mailchannels in place to get it to a 99%+ deliver-ability.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1AuroraZ
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