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ARIN & Stupid Policies
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ARIN & Stupid Policies

FRCoreyFRCorey Member
edited April 2012 in General

So we were looking into getting our own V4/V6 space from ARIN and created the application and whatnot and sent in our submission.

IPV6 ticket, wait till you're approved for IPv4 space.

IPv4 Ticket, you have to be assigned a /20 to get a /20 and so forth for smaller allocations.

So for 1250 a year we could get up to 4096 ip's at a cost of 2.5 cents a month roughly. Rather than paying 1.25-1.50 per ip per month from our data centers.

So of course were denied even a /24 because our data centers are not SWIP/RWHOISing the ip's to us properly although that's being fixed.

By their logic we'd have to spend 3840 a year for a single /24, to qualify to get a /24 from them for 1250 a year.

Not sure what the hell to do about them now. It's a stupid and costly catch-22 they've set themselves up with. Nothing stopping us from paying 1250 a year for our own IPv6 space though.

I see someone saw the writing on the wall years ago.. http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/1997-03/msg00515.html

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Comments

  • @FRCorey said: By their logic we'd have to spend 3840 a year for a single /24, to qualify to get a /24 from them for 1250 a year.

    Not sure what you're saying here? We're going directly to a /20.

  • @FRCorey yeah that sucks

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    It'll get worse as things go on. If you get 2 upstream providers + a /23 of usage you could get a /22, but realize past the /22 you'll have to give back some/all of your old IP space.

    Francisco

  • @FRCorey Buy a cross connect in the data center to their meet me room and buy a 200mbit commit gige link to cogent for $800/mo, get a /20 from cogent, they will swip, you use it, they charge nothing for IP's as long as you justify properly, also get LOA from them, now you can go back to ARIN and get AS for $500/yr and announce cogent space to your datacenter and if you have any /24's or better from data center, get LOA's and announce to cogent

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    The smallest allocation they provide is a /22. We received a /22 from them and we were only using 2 /24s (although we had 3 swip'd to us). Also, the smallest IPv6 allocation for ISPs is $1,687.50 (next year it will be $2,250). Just a heads up.

    @miTgiB said: buy a 200mbit commit gige link to cogent for $800/mo

    Is that with a contract?

    @miTgiB said: get AS for $500/yr

    I think you mean $500 one-time. There is a $100/year fee but this is waived if you have an IP allocation.

  • @KuJoe said: Is that with a contract?

    1 year, and yeah, I guess they rob you yearly of $100 for the AS now, I remember my domain/ip's/asn were all free at first.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    Interesting. I'm actually going to be talking to a Cogent rep tomorrow about getting a second network setup for us (I was told that the right rep can get you a 1Gbps commit for $700/mo with a 1 year contract).

  • laaevlaaev Member

    ARIN does not allocate blocks smaller than a /22, its the smallest block you really should announce anyway.

  • RIPE has no problem with /24s

  • prometeusprometeus Member, Host Rep

    @rds100 said: RIPE has no problem with /24s

    /24 is infact the small prefix length known to not be filtered...

  • I think this policy is to prevent new IPv4 entrants from easily gaining space, but nobody is forcing the IPv6 issue.

  • JacobJacob Member

    So who is more Strict with Justification, ARIN or RIPE. I think RIPE has a 3000 Euro setup fee, That's initially what put me off going further with the applications.

  • @Jacob said: So who is more Strict with Justification, ARIN or RIPE.

    As a newly-minted LIR (congratulations!), @prometeus is uniquely qualified to advise on this issue...

  • It is hard to tell who is stricter, since people who live in RIPE land don't have to deal with ARIN, and the opposite is true too...

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @quirkyquark said: As a newly-minted LIR (congratulations!), @prometeus is uniquely qualified to advise on this issue...

    I'm fairly certain most providers here have the same "qualifications". :P

  • @Kujoe we are LIR since December 2000, but i don't think this makes us more or less qualified :)
    You just keep your documentation in order and follow the procedures and you are OK.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @rds100 said: we are LIR since December 2000, but i don't think this makes us more or less qualified :)

    Agreed, I was just pointing out that there are probably more providers with their own IP-space than not (at least that's how I always viewed it). I could be wrong though.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @KuJoe said: Agreed, I was just pointing out that there are probably more providers with their own IP-space than not (at least that's how I always viewed it). I could be wrong though.

    It's the opposite :P

    The vast majority of VPS companies around use rented IP space.

    Francisco

  • Yes, smaller providers can just request a PI assignment through their sponsoring LIR, the price paid by the LIR to RIPE currently is 50EUR/Year per an independend resource (this includes every PI subnet assigned regardless of the size and every AS assigned).
    So for a /24 (or /23) + AS the cost of the LIR is 100 EUR / Year, the provider will probably need to pay double this to the LIR.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @Francisco said: The vast majority of VPS companies around use rented IP space.

    For some reason before we got our own IP space it seemed like every time I looked around we were the only ones still renting IPs, guess it's just how I perceived it. Glad to know we weren't the last at least. :)

  • @KuJoe said: I'm fairly certain most providers here have the same "qualifications"

    Ah, how many IPs do you have from RIPE? ;)

    I just meant on the ARIN/RIPE justification issue. I didn't know about @rds100...

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep
    edited April 2012

    @quirkyquark said: Ah, how many IPs do you have from RIPE? ;)

    None (we're strictly US-based so we only use ARIN), I was just pointing out there are a lot of LIRs here. ;)

  • prometeusprometeus Member, Host Rep

    @rds100 said: Yes, smaller providers can just request a PI assignment through their sponsoring LIR, the price paid by the LIR to RIPE currently is 50EUR/Year per an independend resource (this includes every PI subnet assigned regardless of the size and every AS assigned).

    we followed that way. We got a /23 PI and the AS when decided it was the time to have our own space (we had 2 /24 PA), then we got some other /24 PI when we needed it...

  • prometeusprometeus Member, Host Rep

    @Jacob said: So who is more Strict with Justification,

    our RIR will be the next to consume all the ipv4 space, so there is more attention than before... The main problem is that now you can't look at one year (or more as it was in the past) but must concentrate in the next three months and this make harder justify large blocks at 80% usage in three months.

  • @KuJoe said: (I was told that the right rep can get you a 1Gbps commit for $700/mo with a 1 year contract).

    Good luck there, that is $0.70, somehow I just don't see that one panning out, but hey, they way Cogent oversells on the east coast, maybe.

  • @miTgiB Cogent is no good for single upstream, but they do have a lot of customers and there is no better way to reach their customers than to use their own network. So they are good to have as "part of the mix", and considering the price...

  • RIPE is fairly easy to deal with if you have proper justification, but it can take 1-2 weeks for them to assign.
    If you forget the setup fee, RIPE should also be cheaper than ARIN if you use PI space.

  • FRCoreyFRCorey Member

    I've gotten quotes for 100M for 200 a month from a few providers and 1G is within that 650-800 range depending on the provider.

  • CINIPACCINIPAC Member

    The IPv4 pool is empty which is the reason for the high ARIN fees. They try to force the ISPs to save IPv4 or start rolling out IPv6.

  • rds100rds100 Member

    @CINIPAC and how do they do it - by putting even higher fees for IPv6 and rising the bar for obtaining an ipv6 allocation for small companies?

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