Semi-Dedicated OpenVZ

EricCubixCloud

Hello.

Do you think it makes sense to offer semi-dedicated virtual servers (AKA Virtual Dedicated Servers) to customers. Here is what makes them different then regular VPS:

-Less users to a node. (about 6 rather then 30, for example) - Dedicated 250Mbps bandwidth (either limit each user to 250 to ensure or assume with only 6 sharing, the speeds will be much better) - possibly run on "better" servers with more expensive hardware.

My question is: would OpenVZ be suitable for this - a "high class" Virtual server.

:)

Jack

I'd say XEN would be better...

httpzoom

Openvz normally means overselling.

I think there would be a market for offering this type of service with Xen HVM

EricCubixCloud

@httpzoom said: Openvz normally means overselling.

We would not be overselling with a setup like this - meant to focus on quality for these users paying premium.

@httpzoom said: type of service with Xen

Okay, thanks. I will consider this. Never looked into offering Xen with SolusVm and such. Do I require a lot of setup or hardware?

httpzoom

With solusvm its all completely automated.

You'd get the server online with a 50gb partition and the rest left in an lvm group.

Run the solusvm slave install, then configure from your master node.

Becareful to ensure you do not try and do the master/slave from same server with Xen.

GetKVM_Ash

@EricCubixCloud said: We would not be overselling with a setup like this - meant to focus on quality for these users paying premium.

The issue with this idea and OpenVZ is that customers only have your word for it, how do they know they aren't paying more and been put on nodes with all the other regular customers?

Xen would be best for this.

subigo

1. Don't call it a "semi-dedicated server" or a "hybrid server" or any of those other retarded marketing terms.

2. Not only would OpenVZ work fine, it would give your users faster containers and is better suited to exactly this type of setup. Xen can be just as oversold as OpenVZ, so the whole "users would know you're telling the truth" argument is invalid.

3. Up until yesterday I had a reseller with nine OpenVZ nodes (whitelabel accounts) who did exactly what you are doing. He made three times as much as my company and only had about 5% of the number of my clients (and a lot fewer support requests to worry about). If you do this, I wouldn't target LET... you can easily find six clients willing to pay $30-60ish for a 4GB/RAM container.

GetKVM_Ash

@subigo said: "users would know you're telling the truth" argument is invalid.

I bet there are 100+ clients that would disagree. Yes Xen can be oversold, but its easy to pick up on IE looking for memory-ballooning. You tell me one method of detecting overselling on an OpenVZ node.

Obviously LET wouldn't be the place to market such strategy's.

MrAndroid

@VMPort said: I bet there are 100+ clients that would disagree. Yes Xen can be oversold, but its easy to pick up on IE looking for memory-ballooning. You tell me one method of detecting overselling on an OpenVZ node.

http://www.lowendbox.com/blog/how-to-tell-your-openvz-vps-is-swapping/

GetKVM_Ash

@Daniel said: http://www.lowendbox.com/blog/how-to-tell-your-openvz-vps-is-swapping/

That is an insightful link, but my point still stands.

AnthonySmith

You can oversell xen by letting it balloon in to dom0 but that lets you do what? an extra 2GB haha?

Also you cant oversell disk space in xen, nope you just cant!

I suspect the OP started this post after it was pointed out in another that raid 1 is no good for 20+ containers, so this is a new strategy not have have to pay for a raid 10 setup.?

Reduce numbers and call it premium..

subigo

@VMPort said: You tell me one method of detecting overselling on an OpenVZ node.

Detecting or knowing for sure? Either way, it doesn't really matter unless it causes problems for the containers. Or just ask the host to provide public resource stats. It's pretty easy to tell if a node is oversold when you can view something like this: http://node6.zensix.com:1111/status/status-report.php

If you don't trust a host, don't sign up. If you want to be 100% sure there's no overselling going on, get a dedicated server.

prometeus

@subigo said: If you want to be 100% sure there's no overselling going on, get a dedicated server.

well, bandwidth is the next overselling target here :-)

EricCubixCloud

@subigo said: Don't call it a "semi-dedicated server" or a "hybrid server" or any of those other retarded marketing terms.

What should I call it then? I want users to see it is more powerful and less of a shared node/environment. Also to note, a term can not be retarded. ;)

@subigo said: Not only would OpenVZ work fine

I agree. Xen may be a good idea but what I was asking here people's opinion on a node that would be shared with less users, not oversold, for 5GB+ servers. Depending on the amount of users, I could dedicate 200Mbps to each user. I would like to keep the prices as low as possible, also.

@AnthonySmith said: Also you cant oversell disk space in xen, nope you just cant!

I don't really care what people say, they can run all their tests and such, we won't be overselling - the goal is to make these high quality "less shared / more dedicated".

@subigo said: If you want to be 100% sure there's no overselling going on, get a dedicated server.

Good point! This is like a baby step into a dedicated server. It's 1/6, 1/4, or 1/2 of a dedicated server. :P

Damian

@EricCubixCloud: We don't over-load our OpenVZ systems either, but there's a stigma about it. People have this mindset that you "shouldn't" have more than 20-30 containers per node... I guess they're stuck in Pentium III days or something.

EricCubixCloud

@Damian said: mindset that you "shouldn't" have more than 20-30 containers per node

Of course. Why are all these numbers set in stone like this? Isn't it "whatever works best for your server". If you don't like what the host is doing, find a new one.

Anything considered "low end" is not going to be perfect. You see the high end providers still selling OpenVZ/Xen for 10 times the price we're used to.

Well, still waiting on some final conclusions about what I should call these semi-dedicated virtual servers. :)

raindog308

@VMPort said: Yes Xen can be oversold, but its easy to pick up on IE looking for memory-ballooning.

OvZ, Xen, KVM call all be oversold in the sense that you have zero visibility as to the physical server's overall RAM and disk. Big RAM carved into many little competing VPSes slicing the I/O pie too thin will give bad performance, regardless if the RAM is oversold or not.

Amfy

But the question is, when you will not trust your provider if he says that he won't oversell, how can you load your data on the vps from them?

rds100

@Amfy it's easy. Data is handled by admins / technical people. Overselling is done by marketing people. I don't trust marketing people but i can mostly trust technical people.

Amfy

@rds100: haha; okay, you're so right :)

EricCubixCloud

So what should I call them haha. Someone said not to call them semi-dedicated for some reason...

How about Virtual Dedicated Servers just to differentiate them from Virtual Private Servers (the lower end)

Amfy

Virtual Dedicated Servers

Yes, sounds not bad! :)

Will they be now OpenVZ or XEN?

subigo

@EricCubixCloud said: How about Virtual Dedicated Servers just to differentiate them from Virtual Private Servers (the lower end).

The two terms mean exactly the same thing. Just give them a plan name that separates them. No need to use gimmicks. It's a VPS, call it a VPS.

EricCubixCloud

@Amfy said: Yes, sounds not bad! :)

Will they be now OpenVZ or XEN?

Thanks. They will be OpenVZ as the original plan. Maybe XEN in future.

@subigo said: It's a VPS, call it a VPS.

How should I differentiate the two? Not just by different plan names but these "virtual dedicated servers" will be on their own node with different hardware, network, etc.

I don't want to call them all VPS - they are not all meant to be in the same category.

Infinity

@EricCubixCloud said: How should I differentiate the two? Not just by different plan names but these "virtual dedicated servers" will be on their own node with different hardware, network, etc.

I don't want to call them all VPS - they are not all meant to be in the same category.

Call it a VPS power plan or something..

subigo

@EricCubixCloud said: I don't want to call them all VPS - they are not all meant to be in the same category.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a damned duck. But you can call it whatever you want, I don't really care either way.

EricCubixCloud

@Infinity said: Call it a VPS power plan or something..

VPS and Premium VPS? I like your idea about VPS Power Plan

EricCubixCloud

Would you guys be interested in giving your thoughts on the beta website (when it's uploaded this weekend) ?

httpzoom

stick it within this post and i'm sure people will give their opinions :)

seraphkz

Or "High Availability" VPS

httpzoom

High Availability to me would suggest multiple location.