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[Zeneva LLC] The Horror Stories Continue...
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[Zeneva LLC] The Horror Stories Continue...

Well, someone linked me a certain Zeneva.net Absolute Frustration post here on LowEndTalk, so I figured I would post what's been happening to me for the last three months (and to clear up why our KVM10 is so bad!)

I have an open case with the Attorney General (Pam Bondi's Office) of the state in which they apparently do Business, as well as an open case with the "City of Altamonte Springs, Police Department", the "Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Division of Consumer Services" regarding Zeneva LLC in which they have been given the same information I will present here today. I have also made inquiry to the Better Business Bureau's office in that state; with no reply as of yet. All invoices and discussions are provided exactly as they were provided to me, with the exception of sensitive information such as Credit Card numbers and Credit Card Transaction IDs are blocked out. I have also blocked out the "Payee" address, as that is my Home Address and not that of my Business (as I was forced to pay with my Visa.)

In this post, all dates are formatted dd-mm-yyyy (important!)


After hearing about Zeneva from a friend as being an "alright company" I had inquired directly with Timothy Lee over Skype regarding a few quotes of service, and eventually we had decided on me purchasing the following specifications:

E5-2620
64 GB RAM
4x 2TB HDD
RAID
$250/mo

The order was finalized and placed on 01-10-2013. The order was paid on 01-10-2013 via PayPal, however; he got his PayPal limited, so we made arrangements that I would pay via Credit Card and he would refund my PayPal transaction. Final payment via Visa was received on 03-10-2013.

Now, I must state that to this day I have not received the server that I ordered back on 01-10-2013. I have been forced into paying more invoices towards the server I have never received as well. (this is where the horror begins...)

On 13-10-2013, Timothy delivered a server with the following specifications, meant as a temporary server in place so I was not completely out of $250. The server was delivered, and I had to configure the RAId and install Linux myself over IPMI... let's not get into how much of a nightmare that was, or how I still don't understand how I had to remotely configure my own RAID:

E3-1230 v3
16 GB RAM
4x 2TB HDD
RAID (without BBU, a really old LSI card)
$250/mo (...)

On 14-10-2013, the server was properly 'fixed' as per the drives and other issues. On 15-10-2013 the IP addresses required for the temporary machine to be of any use at all, were delivered (finally). I had to set them up myself of course. At this point, I have a 16GB RAM (1/4th the RAM) with a much smaller CPU, and a less than expected RAID card (although the RAID card was never specifically noted in my invoices or order, so I can't complain about that.) Zeneva did not reimburse me or credit the difference.

On 17-11-2013 an invoice was generated, due on 01-12-2013 (for $250 again, for the service I have yet to receive.) I only paid the invoice on 04-12-2013, (rightfully delayed as well,) after his staff promised a delivery date, and he guaranteed and confirmed this delivery date over Skype; for the following weekend.

On 18-12-2013 an invoice was generated, due on 01-01-2014 (for $250 again.) Needless to say, I have not paid this invoice yet.

On 19-12-2013 the entire Zeneva network suffered a downtime lasting just over ten hours (as my Nagios reported it.) I have not been reimbursed on this, nor was a network announcement or issue, or any sort of communique sent out regarding this downtime. I had to pester him on Skype repeatedly the downtime to get status updates.


Image of Invoice #186 (01-10-2013): https://db.tt/rGrGNWhf

Image of Invoice #316 (17-11-2013): https://db.tt/QkyNHEin

Promise to deliver ordered service (04-11-2013): https://db.tt/KzDtoXeU

Confirmation of promise to deliver (04-11-2013): https://db.tt/QPfzKbJs

Image of Invoice #369 (18-12-2013): https://db.tt/c43JmH40


To summarize, as it stands now I have paid $500.00 USD for a $100 server.

I know you're here @Zeneva, I would love for everyone to hear your side of the story. I have neglected to mention Timothy's reasons or explanation for any of these delays; as I don't want to put words in his mouth (if even the words that have already come out of his mouth...) I would rather keep this a fair and civil horror story, where @mpkossen doesn't have to step in until the provider in question replies.

To everyone else, I hope your holidays are great so far!


P.S: If this were WebHostingTalk, the delivery date alone would be enough to permanently ban the offending provider from the network on ethical grounds.

«134

Comments

  • serverianserverian Member
    edited December 2013

    said: P.S: If this were WebHostingTalk, the delivery date alone would be enough to permanently ban the offending provider from the network on ethical grounds.

    If VD is not banned on WHT, I doubt anyone would ever get because of their service! lol

  • GoodHostingGoodHosting Member
    edited December 2013

    @serverian said:

    You can have bad service, and then you can lie about delivery dates, lie about the service delivered, lie about your vendor, lie about your data-center....

    I digress, the lies are not lies until @Zeneva responds and can't prove them. For all I know, this is just a Series of Unfortunate Events

  • shovenoseshovenose Member, Host Rep

    You really are having a HARD time setting up your CLOUD

    :)

  • @shovenose said:
    You really are having a HARD time setting up your CLOUD

    :)

    shovvy boy, whats up?!

  • serverian said: @shovenose said: You really are having a HARD time setting up your CLOUD

    :)

    shovvy boy, whats up?!

    Shove it to your nose boy :D

  • GoodHostingGoodHosting Member
    edited December 2013

    Update Timothy has contact me, and we are attempting to work out this situation. I have been made aware of some reasons that were out of his control (data-center caused issues) that would help to explain some of the delay, the situation is still unknown however.

  • All that time, you've been paying 250$ for that spec? Meh you should've charged back on the paypal the time he got his account limited. Since paypal reimburses it on such situations.

    And may I know what made you pay those invoices even though your server wasn't delivered?

  • This Zeneva guy really lacks professionalism. Feeling sorry for you @Hardcloud :(

  • lukesUbuntulukesUbuntu Member
    edited December 2013

    said: On 19-12-2013 the entire Zeneva network suffered a downtime lasting just over ten hours (as my Nagios reported it.) I have not been reimbursed on this, nor was a network announcement or issue, or any sort of communique sent out regarding this downtime. I had to pester him on Skype repeatedly the downtime to get status updates.

    I had the same on my dedi with them [19/12] down for : 22 hrs & 3 mins & 40 secs
    from my monitoring system it took ages to get a response of what was going on, seems like they had no redundancy plans in place.

    Just makes me wonder why people say 100% Uptime thats what they have on there SLA, and what made me get the dedicated server with them.

    I haven't had as much bad luck as you, service has been okay.

  • @HardCloud it's amazing why you've paid the second invoice when you haven't got what your ordered first.

  • GoodHostingGoodHosting Member
    edited December 2013

    @akexvolk, @lukesUbuntu, @ironhide, @GaNi, @shovenose

    After seeing this thread, Tim had a lot to say. I'm glad to post these now, especially since it's what, corporate blackmail against customer data, threats, holding data hostage, unethical business practices, and a gigantic pissing contest:

    1: https://db.tt/oeiM0CjW

    2: https://db.tt/MPLSMJFE

    3: https://db.tt/QT1SP4B9

    4: https://db.tt/H2YhPLbS

    5: https://db.tt/x1T88Vlp

    6: https://db.tt/r88VHl8R

    7: https://db.tt/c8prRS40

    8: https://db.tt/2mdPAQFo

    9: https://db.tt/ec6YOqhf

    10: https://db.tt/GAyjpzuZ

    The same above screenshots as well as the whole three month log has gone off to the related legal parties, hopefully they deal with this unethical business practices claim.

    I enjoy the fact that I don't even have to construe these comments in any way; they are threats plain and simple. These are illegal threats (known as blackmail) against customer data and active (PAID AND NOT VIOLATING TERMS) services.

    The best part of the entire conversation:

    [12/20/2013 4:53:42 PM] Tim (Zeneva): Not going to sort anything. Our terms clearly state what we do when we get slammed.
    
    [12/20/2013 4:54:08 PM] Tim (Zeneva): This is when I have no interest in doing business and cut ties and move on.
    
    [12/20/2013 4:54:12 PM] Charles Broughton: A log of public information, posted publicly is a slam?
    
    [12/20/2013 4:54:28 PM] Tim (Zeneva): Same thing we did the last time.
    
    [12/20/2013 4:54:32 PM] Charles Broughton: Oh, this is good.
    
    [12/20/2013 4:54:53 PM] Tim (Zeneva): We shut the server off, took our terms, and moved on and provisioned it for someone else
    
    [12/20/2013 4:55:09 PM] Tim (Zeneva): Our terms are very clear
    
    [12/20/2013 4:56:14 PM] Charles Broughton: The only related term is article 10, a standard warranty disclaimer.
    
    [12/20/2013 4:57:02 PM] Charles Broughton: Your article 17 is not valid in this case, as I have not violated any of the "above restrictions".
    
    [12/20/2013 4:57:33 PM] Charles Broughton: Article 13 is not valid either, as I have my account paid up until 01/01/2014.
    
    [12/20/2013 4:58:23 PM] Tim (Zeneva): Those rules do not apply to us at all. We have a right to follow our terms you follow. I can refund the cost difference between the servers and suspend the account if we choose. We have one of the best technology attorneys who would back us
    
    [12/20/2013 4:59:14 PM] Charles Broughton: Tim, your own Terms of Service have nothing that we have violated.  Above, you have stated that "Our terms clearly state what we do when we get slammed."
    
    [12/20/2013 4:59:29 PM] Charles Broughton: The terms of service as published and accepted in my initial order, on http://www.zeneva.net/terms-of-service/
    
    [12/20/2013 4:59:52 PM] Charles Broughton: Again, this is not a pissing contest.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:00:07 PM] Tim (Zeneva): It's in direct violation of our terms. It clearly states we can suspend a customer as our sole discretion.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:01:04 PM] Tim (Zeneva): You want handle this professionally then we can. If you wish for me to follow our terms I will do that and refund the cost difference and we can end this business relationship.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:01:30 PM] Charles Broughton: The facts are:
    - My account is paid in full until 01/01/2014.
    - I have not violated any of your Terms of Service.
    
    Whether we continue service after 01/01/2014 is of course up to question, and you have full right to deny payment on 01/01/2014 and reject future services.  However, I have not done anything in which makes me eligible for expulsion from your network prior to this date.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:02:11 PM] Tim (Zeneva): We can deny service to customers and suspend them at our discretion.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:02:16 PM] Tim (Zeneva): Check the terms
    
    [12/20/2013 5:02:51 PM] Charles Broughton: I am in your Terms of Service right now Tim.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:03:15 PM] Charles Broughton: "17. We reserve the right to terminate any account without warning or notice if any of the above restrictions are violated and to examine the contents of any account at any time. "
    
    This is the only slightly related article, and the important conditional here is " if any of the above restrictions are violated "
    
    [12/20/2013 5:04:43 PM] Tim (Zeneva): I can easily refund you for the time left for remainder of this month if you want get technical.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:07:40 PM] Charles Broughton: I have not violated any of the restrictions set forth in your Terms of Service or non-existent/included Acceptable Use Policy to warrant immediate suspension, expulsion or termination.
    
    This isn't a matter of technical or a pissing contest, as I have stated 3-4 times now.
    
    [12/20/2013 5:07:45 PM] Tim (Zeneva): We have suspended customers before at our discretion and if I choose to, I will. You could have easily messaged me and asked me what was going on rather then slamming us. So if you want me to take that option, let me know
    

    Skype conversations are in no way a private media, business relations (unless they are back-alley shady deals) are always publicized at some time, so why not right now?

    The entire Skype log (the last month, some messages removed at Tim's request) are available here:

    http://pastebin.com/j9s3RNKE

    Thanked by 1k0nsl
  • Hello,
    When Damon ordered and purchased his server we made him fully aware that it was a custom configuration and that it would take a bit longer to get the server up. Due to numerous delays with our vendor the parts took a bit longer then expected to get in due to numerous issues. They sent the wrong motherboard, then the wrong CPU heatsink, and the problems continued. At that time we then made Damon aware that we would get the server online as quick as we could

    I had mentioned to Damon the situation and made him fully aware of what's going on with our vendor and even offered to provide the proof. Granted it is our responsibility but sometimes vendor delays are out of our control. We had bumped into some other issues that were out of our concern that had not allowed us to deliver.

    We had a massive network issue that we are preparing to send out an email in regards to. We kept our clients very informed on what was going on via Social Media (http://www.twitter.com/zenevahost). We kept users up-to-date on a regular basis as to what was going on. An e-mail is due to go out over the weekend explaining what happen and how we are pretending it from happening again in the future. Our customers were kept very informed.

    I did offer Damon a refund of the difference for the servers and even offered to credit him on the account. Credits will be issued in regards to the network outage.

    Our Terms of Services clearly do state that we have a right to terminate a customer. we always been the type to resolve issues privately and this issue was just addressed recently and made extremely clear to Damon what was going on. He was understanding and agreed.

    It is unfortunate that things didn't work out but good luck finding your hosting provider.

    Thank you.

  • EDIT: Removed some messages from the logs as requested by Tim, regarding matters that are not completely public as of yet.

    As per

    Our Terms of Services clearly do state that we have a right to terminate a customer.

    ... your Terms of Service do not have such a clause (as is quite visible in the logs, and your Terms of Service as it is online right now.)

  • @lukesUbuntu We are in the process of sending out an e-mail to explain what happen and how it was addressed. You are correct we do have a 100% uptime SLA and we have kept it. This is the only issue that we have had. You will receive credits on your account as stated and outlined in our SLA.

    Since we recently changed routers we haven't added the additional redundancy for this router. This issue has been addressed and the additional redundancy is being added on all levels of the network that it isn't on after the huge network upgrade that we did a few months back.

  • @Zeneva said:

    2 Months is more than a small delay.,

  • @mcmyhost said:
    2 Months is more than a small delay.,

    3 months* (03-10-2013 -> 21-12-2013)

  • @mcmyhost said:
    2 Months is more than a small delay.,

    I agree. The correct parts were just recently received from our vendor. It took our vendor quite awhile to address the issue. This is the reason why we had offered to credit the difference on the account due to the delays. He had no issue with that.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2013

    wtf is "get slammed"

    Seriously @HardCloud just posted facts.

    Thanked by 1Steve81
  • @perennate said:
    wtf is "get slammed"

    Seriously HardCloud just posted facts.

    Welcome to my world...

  • drserverdrserver Member, Host Rep

    @Zeneva You should change your hardware vendor if they need 3 months to send you ordered products.

  • @Jack said:
    Are they not just reselling versaweb?

    Considering they are in a much more reliable DC, SuperNap/SwitchDC no.

  • @drserver said:
    Zeneva You should change your hardware vendor if they need 3 months to send you ordered products.

    Apparently they did get a new vendor.

    @INIZ said:
    Considering they are in a much more reliable DC, SuperNap/SwitchDC no.

    They're in the datacenter, but they have all their own networking.

  • @Jack said:
    Are they not just reselling versaweb?

    No, we do not resell for FiberHub/VersaWeb. Zeneva owns and operates our own Tier 3 network with Juniper routers and switches. Yes, we're located in Switch SuperNAP.

    We did change hardware vendors after this delay.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider
    edited December 2013

    @Zeneva the real bottom line here, cutting through all the crap, the Customer ordered something and you failed to deliver it.

    Customer complained and then did so publicly did not slander you in any way shape or form.

    Let me tell you how this will work when it comes to legal action which it seems the OP is pursuing.

    1)Why did you not deliver the server?

    A) because supplier issues

    Thrown out because that is not the customers problem, customer complained about the time delays and you really did not act accordingly.

    2) Why did you delete the customers service

    A) Because I can do what I want according to our terms.

    Thrown out because because is not a good reason.

    Look you failed to deliver and have made your problems your customers problems and now your financially penalising them as a result.

    This is a real classic type of case that gets providers banned from places like WHT and LEB/T and frankly I think you should just accept that the root cause of the issue is on you and as such you should refund the OP.

    There is allot of background noise in this case and it makes NO difference at all to who is to blame and for what.

    @Spirit @mpkossen I seriously think this would be a case for removal of a provider from this place and @OP I hope you have made the mod team on WHT aware of this via a ticket.

    Thanked by 1Steve81
  • concerto49concerto49 Member
    edited December 2013

    Easiest way would just have been to refund any customer that asks for it due to delays past any promises if that's the way they want to go. That should end it all.

    Hardware issues are a pain, but things happen.

    Thanked by 2Jeffrey kyaky
  • I offered to refund the customer the difference between the machines.

    I had no problem doing that. It was stated multiple times.

  • We also didn't terminate the customer. He still has an active service with us.

  • BrianHarrisonBrianHarrison Member, Patron Provider
    edited December 2013

    @HardCloud You're not going to make any progress pursuing this as a criminal matter. To be frank, filing a complaint with the police department is an exercise in futility. If you want your money back, then your course of action should be 1. request a refund from the merchant, 2. file a chargeback with PayPal, 3. last resort, file suit in civil court.

    Posting all of these private conversations (even having those back and forth conversations at all) just seems like a waste of time. Clearly things haven't worked out and you need to move on.

  • @Zeneva said:
    I offered to refund the customer the difference between the machines.

    I think that's the problem. Offer a full refund if it's not to spec and move on. We've done a lot of these too. Not exactly our fault due to 3rd parties as you say, but that's life.

  • observation#1 (for Zeneva): It's perfectly acceptable to "divorce" a customer but if your termination of the customer comes before you have provisioned the server he ordered you need to offer him a full refund.

    observation #2 (for Damon): publicly threatening to sue your dedicated server provider on a public forum isn't the best way to go about things and usually doesn't achieve the desired results. I seem to remember a similar thread on WHT in October where you were going to sue "Chuck"...

    Advice: in the future, try to work it out in private, remain calm, and if you can't work it out, resist the urge to make legal threats on LET/WHT, and instead pick up the phone and call your lawyers and see if they think you have a case..and if you do have a case handle it in court.

    observation #3 Zeneva said (in the conversation HardCloud posted):_ "We have one of the best technology attorneys " It's wonderful that you have a good technology attorney but this is a contract dispute not a technology dispute. :)

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