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WHMCS ALWAYS flags me for fraud
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WHMCS ALWAYS flags me for fraud

regsregs Member
edited September 2012 in Help

Anyone else having issues with this? It seems that there has been a recent update to WHMCS which causes any account I sign up with on any provider to be automatically cancelled for fraud. I thought it was exclusive to InceptionHosting but when I tried to sign up with BuyVM I received the same error.

I am entering all real information but I figured that it has to be one of two things. The first is I live in PA but have a California area code for my cell phone which should be a big issue as a lot of companies call the number and give me a code to input (Like in the case of Inception Hosting) but even if I enter the number I am STILL cancelled for fraud.

The other idea maybe some sort of Geo-Locating issue, I am right on the PA/Ohio border and my region is referred to as NEO or North East Ohio for Time Warner Cable but if I try to look up my IP it says that it is in PA.

Could anyone offer any insight into this? At first I was honestly offended because I felt like I was being treated as a criminal. I understand the need to protect yourself from fraudulent orders but it really is a shame when someone who wants to become a legitimate customer can't order service as a result and I can only assume fraudulent orders are probably STILL going through :(

EDIT: put two g's in flags

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Comments

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Real frauds are getting through, it is like the immigration policy, you deny ppl from some country and only the criminals enter because they dont care about the law, as such, the initial deny of entry is justified...
    Now, besides Geo reasons, might be others, like proxies, maybe your account was compromised or computer and criminals use it, but most likely it is about geolocation.
    This is usually solved by making fake accounts and giving fake data.
    M

  • Check your email address on Google and see if it is listed on any publicly accessible database. Try to use @domain.tld instead of free ones such as gmail, aol etc. Calculate the distance between your address and IP address. These are some of the red flags.

    Whenever we notice an automated fraud alert, we send email to user and ask for validation. Generally a copy of your govt. Issued id and proof of address such as mail/bill/driving license that reflects your original address. Then we manually validate those info and then simply remove those documents after 6 mo.

  • @regs for example if the provider where you're trying to sign up is using MaxMind with the calling feature enabled and he forgot to add credit to his MaxMind account, then instead of a verification call you get flagged as fraud automatically. It's just one of the many possibilities, but don't think of MaxMind like it's this hi-tech piece of fraud prevention. It's in fact relatively primitive by modern standards. It could also be that AVS keeps failing, or if PayPal maybe you addresses don't match. Everyone is tightening security these days for good reason.

  • @Maounique said: This is usually solved by making fake accounts and giving fake data.

    Hell no, worst advice ever. This is solved by working with the provider - contact them and ask them to manually review your order, etc.

    Thanked by 1TheHackBox
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited September 2012

    Happened to me for a while because I used my cell phone. Despite that being my primary phone, it's location tracing to 10 miles away from me was just too much for maxmind. Apparently they don't take into account that I'm in America. Everything is 10 miles away from everything.

  • @Maounique this is a terrible piece of advice. You know that if some how, your account with your provider gets compromised, there will not be a single thing you can do to get your account back.

    And living under the shed of false info and false safety will never help anyone.

    Thanked by 1TheHackBox
  • I don't even get tot he PayPal part to pay the invoice, my paypal address on my account is a verified address and the same one I use to sign up.

    It probably is because I use a gmail account because time warner email is horrible, but I know my gmail hasn't been compromised because I use two-step authentication. Would you suggest using one of my domain email addresses ([email protected]) or would that cause more problems as it's a .be?

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @rds100 said: This is solved by working with the provider - contact them and ask them to manually review your order, etc.

    If they ask for papers, providing that is the worst advice ever. Even keeping only for 6 months, in the hands of unscrupulous or poorly protected hosts it is dynamite. You can later fake the papers too, what do you have to lose ? Worst case you get rejected again or VPS is cancelled, big deal, exposing your identity for a couple of bucks a month is NOT worth it.
    M

  • Has happened to me several times because they mark my ISP as proxy (Virgin Media), when I submit ticket they explain this and sometimes don't require further proof from some sites but others ask for proof. Or of course there are many other factors such as distance from IP to address input etc

  • regsregs Member
    edited September 2012

    Yeah, it's probably something with my IP. Although if I use a geoip locator it shows up as the town right next to me (if i throw a baseball really hard it will land in the town) but if you check whois.sc it says Cleveland http://whois.domaintools.com/24.166.98.152 (in b4 ddos)

  • @Maounique Bad advice. If someone does something like this at our place chances are that he/she gets banned for good.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    I get fake names sign up every day. It's fine, this isn't Facebook, just follow the rules.

  • regsregs Member
    edited September 2012

    I know that what Maounique is saying is bad advice but he does have a point. If I was doing fraud what would stop me from just doctoring some images and sending them in? Pretty much nothing which is why this is such a joke. All I believe this is doing is hurting legitimate customers.

    Which again I have nothing against companies trying to protect their businesses but I just wish there was an easier way. Sending someone a copy of my Driver's License isn't really that big of a deal, I always black out my dl number, and my home address is something that you could get very easy by typing my gmail email into google and finding my resume.

  • TazTaz Member
    edited September 2012

    @regs Any experienced provider can verify if an Id and documentation is fraud or no.
    Take this for some good gag :)
    http://blog.hostgator.com/2012/03/25/may-we-see-your-id-please/

    Plus faking ID and etc for 5-10$ is something an average fraudster would less likely would do. Takes lots of time for a little to less profit and plus, most of the fake signups are youngstars any way.

  • @regs if shipping of a physical product is not involved then you don't need to provide a direver's license. Just make sure that all the information matches. MaxMind has been known to screw up before.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    http://blog.hostgator.com/2012/03/25/may-we-see-your-id-please/

    I have the key which is generated out of the data for romanian IDs. If I have it, many crooks have it. I also have a blank ID I scanned in full detail when I was working for an ifriends provider back in 1999 or so, he was faking that to prove all model are of age (they were, but most didnt agree to give their real data).
    I can fake romanian IDs that cant be told except from looking in the database. I am not doing that, tho, because it would be illegal.
    Faking a name and address, even tho against ToS of all providers is not illegal, they can suspend me and keep the money (my fake identity will not go to courts to ask for pocket change) if they want to, but they would do that even if I was doing something illegal with the VPS, so nothing changed, crooks cannot be screened out this way, abusers will be caught and kicked because "nobody hides from pony" to quote a great former member of the community.
    When I will have the time will detail why is better to use fake data for LEBs or any deal that doesnt involve physical delivery under 5 $. I will rather lose the money than risk my identity with shady hosts. IPXCore is far from a summer host, yet Damian and many others consider they have the right to post customer info at their leisure, they can be police, prosecuters and jury to judge that customer's identy was fake. I can't trust that kind of judging, sorry for that.
    You can see i didnt mention the cases when hackers have access to WHMCS or other servers, when malicious outsourced employee is getting their hands on the papers, google a bit and crack paypal accounts and whatnot.
    5 $ is not worth it, fox, no offense.
    M

  • @regs said: Real or Fake

    http://i.imgur.com/jRep6.jpg

    It says blue eyes but his eyes aren't blue, they are brown. ._.

    Thanked by 1Taz
  • @reqs Fake.
    Person in picture is around 27-45. YOB 1989
    Eyes are not blue and missed some other details I will not reveal ;)

  • regsregs Member
    edited September 2012

    Yeah it is fake, but I made it in about 10 min leaving out a few details. How many hosts would let that pass through though?

    Give me 10 more min, we'll try this again :)

  • @regs said: Yeah it is fake, but I made it in about 10 min leaving out a few details. How many hosts would let that pass through though?

    Almost any kiddy host while 0 professional/real host.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited September 2012

    @Taz_NinjaHawk said: Almost any kiddy host while 0 professional/real host.

    I bet you will not be that sure if it was from another country than the US/UK, in another language, cyrillics and whatnot. Can you tell a fake greek ID ? Do you even know how that looks like ? What about those from Cyprus ? Norway ? Sure, it depends on quality, some can be told even like that, but that only means they did a bad job at it.
    Sure, you can deny everyone except the countries you can tell fakes from real ones, however, ANY ID, utility bill, whatever CAN be faked enough so NOBODY can tell the difference over Internet without access to ID database or some other form of access.
    M

  • @Maounique said: Sure, you can deny everyone except the countries you can tell fakes from real ones, however, ANY ID, utility bill, whatever CAN be faked enough so NOBODY can tell the difference over Internet without access to ID database or some other form of access.

    and how would you know this?

    Thanked by 1Taz
  • @Maounique said: I bet you will not be that sure if it was from another country than the US/UK, in another language, cyrillics and whatnot. Can you tell a fake greek ID ? Do you even know how that looks like ? What about those from Cyprus ? Norway ? Sure, it depends on quality, some can be told even like that, but that only means they did a bad job at it.

    Sure, you can deny everyone except the countries you can tell fakes from real ones, however, ANY ID, utility bill, whatever CAN be faked enough so NOBODY can tell the difference over Internet without access to ID database or some other form of access.

    Please shoot me one of your romanian fake ids with fake utility info over pm, let me try out my luck (I have yet to deal with any romanian user so should be a great experience.)

  • Try to send a real one as well and let me see if I can distinguish :)

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited September 2012

    You can understand that I cannot send you real ones :P
    M

  • @Maounique said: And what will that prove ? You will already know they are fake...

    Please read my second comment.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Yes, edited already :P
    M

  • @Maounique said: Yes, edited already :P

    M

    Bummer.
    If you have something real good next time, hmu :)

  • what about this one: http://i.imgur.com/d9igL.jpg

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