SERVER - VIRTUALIZATION - Hosting and Training Purpose

DragonDF

Hello guys!

I am sorry, but like a newbie in this area I have spent a very good time trying to learn a bit more.

I will start a new Hosting Company in Brazil. This is my intention. I already have 10 clients, so 'Company' can pay for a VPS+Cpanel (about $20/month) by itself. I imagine I can insert from 50 to 80 clients in this VPS (1Gb ram, 50Gb hd). If everything works fine I will have these number of clients in 4 months.

I don't like to be very dependent of others. I like to learn and I do not have difficult to learn. I learn very fast (usually alone, but in TI area, this is not so simple).

To run this "hosting' business (it will have SEO and Development, too - my area), I think could be a good idea to get a LINUX CERTIFICATION like LPI. In fact, I do not need CERTIFICATION to get a JOB. I am my own boss. But I think this could be good to learn something. Maybe I could be wrong.

While I start the VPS, I plan to make tests in a SERVER to learn how to manage it. I think it could be a good idea to buy one in eBay (Intel Xeon, 8 or 16Gb ram) for about $250-350 and make tests at home.

But and AFTER I HAVE THE SERVER?

1. OS: CentOS because people usually type it likes the most popular to servers

2. Virtualization: THIS IS A PROBLEM TO ME. I know some OS can not run if you choose one or other virtualization software. Maybe here I have a mistake. Maybe OpenVZ, XEN and KVM are first than OS. Maybe they are a kind of O.S.

I have already read this thread:

Which one is the best performance? OpenVZ, XEN or KVM? Link: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/14841#Comment_14841

I could see that for the same money if you choose a VPS with OPENVZ it will have almost the double of the RAM than a XEN or KVM. I think this happen because OpenVZ allows overselling. I could never understand it very well.

I want to get my server and run WINDOW, LINUXS, MACOS, etc in it like VPS. Like I wrote, I want to LEARN. I think KVM or Xen will be the best option (like I want to run Windows inside Linux).

Is there a book or tutorial or something I can read to learn about this?

Do I really need to get a certification?

For a newbie in Linux, what are the steps I need to follow after I get my server?

Why do not member talk about VmWare?

Reference: Xen vs KVM - http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/11883#Comment_11883

Cheap OpenVZ or more expensive XEN HVM/KVM? http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/548

Virtualization on your laptop http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/9596

Thank you!

SpeedBus

KVM, does really well, offering dedicated server like isolation for every container (VM), It can run almost any OS ?

DragonDF

hello SpeedBus! Are you in doubt, too?

Why do you prefer KVM?

Damian

What certification are you working on anyway? I can't think of anyone providing certification in linux virtualization.

japon

@Damian4IPXcore said: What certification are you working on anyway? I can't think of anyone providing certification in linux virtualization.

• RedHat
• VMware
• Microsoft

cleonard

I'd say that actual certification is not worth it unless you are looking for a job. That said, reading the study materials for certification is not a bad way to gain knowledge.

Books and tutorials are good, there there is no substitute for actual real life experience. Get a system and start working with the different flavors of virtualization. I believe that OpenVZ can run on any hardware. KVM needs the hardware virtualization support in the CPU. Most server CPU's have it and many of the more recent desktop CPUs have it. For example the E3000 series celeron's have it.

netpioneer

I could see that for the same money if you choose a VPS with OPENVZ it will have almost the double of the RAM than a XEN or KVM.

OpenVZ you have address space not RAM. With XEN/KVM the root user can create a swap area the size he wants.

I don't like to be very dependent of others. I like to learn and I do not have difficult to learn. I learn very fast (usually alone, but in TI area, this is not so simple).

I suggest you read a lot about Internet protocols and basic Internet services. Most of the doubts, complains, mistakes happen because the person doesn't have a clue about protocols and how basic services work.

DragonDF

@Damian4IPXcore In fact, I thought to get a default Linux Certification: LPI.

@japon Thank you for your post (I've already clicked in the button).

@cleonard I really do not mind about certification. But If I will need to learn, I think could be usefull to earn something (in spite of lost of time)

I believe that OpenVZ can run on any hardware. KVM needs the hardware virtualization support in the CPU. Most server CPU's have it and many of the more recent desktop CPUs have it.

One more thing to understand WHY owner of servers like OpenVz so much and why it is cheaper.

OpenVZ = any hardware KVM = CPU with virtualization VmWare = ???? Xen = ??? (allow Windows)

@netpioneer

OpenVZ you have address space not RAM. With XEN/KVM the root user can create a swap area the size he wants.

So, guys are selling something that in fact DOES NOT EXIST? Are they scammers? I thought if I had a server with 16Gb RAM, I could only have (without Overselling) 32 VPS (512Mb). In this case, I thought WRONG.

Aren't you confused with SWAP or something like VIRTUAL memory?

I suggest you read a lot about Internet protocols and basic Internet services. Most of the doubts, complains, mistakes happen because the person doesn't have a clue about protocols and how basic services work.

Can you suggest a link?

Thank you guys!

netpioneer

So, guys are selling something that in fact DOES NOT EXIST? Are they scammers? I thought if I had a server with 16Gb RAM, I could only have (without Overselling) 32 VPS (512Mb). In this case, I thought WRONG.

Aren't you confused with SWAP or something like VIRTUAL memory? Nope.

As someone said "free memory is wasted memory" and any decent operating system since 1960's keeps in RAM only the "working set". OpenVZ defines the maximum number of pages your VPS can allocate but it doesn't mean all pages will be kept/reserved in RAM.

Can you suggest a link?

What about a book? :-)

Douglas Comer. Internetworking With TCP/IP Volume 1

DragonDF

@netpioneer said: As someone said "free memory is wasted memory" and any decent operating system since 1960's keeps in RAM only the "working set". OpenVZ defines the maximum number of pages your VPS can allocate but it doesn't mean all pages will be kept/reserved in RAM.

Good to know!

@netpioneer said: What about a book? :-)

Douglas Comer. Internetworking With TCP/IP Volume 1

I like books! :) Already downloading.

yomero

@DragonDF said: Already downloading.

LOL! No comments.

netpioneer

I like books! :) Already downloading

You may also want to download DNS and BIND by Cricket Liu, Paul Albitz

For "advanced" studies in networking fundamentals I suggest you read a BGP tutorial and everything published on drpeering.net. Regarding operating systems fundamentals take a look at Multics.

marrco

@netpioneer said: I like books! :) Already downloading

You may also want to download DNS and BIND by Cricket Liu, Paul Albitz

i bought that book. Is it so uncommon not to steal ?

japon

@marrco said: i bought that book. Is it so uncommon not to steal ?

How does buying make downloading impossible? Publishers sell their books as digital copies. Besides the fact that you can get many O'Reilly books as openbooks.

netpioneer

i bought that book. Is it so uncommon not to steal ?

I bought mine too. :-)

SpeedBus

@DragonDF : I'm not in doubt as such, I know that Windows and Linux works on KVM, I was not sure if MacOS worked or not.

japon

@SpeedBus said: I was not sure if MacOS worked or not

Technically it should. But you will have licensing issues then.

libro22

I'm currently reading "UNIX and Linux System Administration Handbook, 4/E" by Prentice Hall and I think it is a good book as an introduction to SysAdmin work. Having a background on Comp. Science topics was helpful in understanding some concepts in the book, especially how the OS functions.

For further reading, I'm looking into O'reilly books.

SpeedBus

@japon : Thanks for the link :D Lemme test :P

DragonDF

Guys! I bought a Laptop for tests: Intel Core i3 Processor 2310M, 500Gb Hd, 2Gb RAM (DDR3), wireless, hdmi, webcam and a Debian distro called Satux- I think it is brazilian

I can buy more Memory in the future, if needed. This is not a problem.

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The first thing I did was to change (click F2) the HD to IDE and received an error "(initramfs) unable to find a medium containing a lives file system". I changed it again to the other default option (sata with another name) and CD was recognized. I got Ubuntu 11.10 (yesterday download). At this moment I am FORMATING the HD space: sda1 (ext3) = 100GB free space: 390GB (I plan to divide it in 3 more) sda2 (linux-swap): 1GB sda3 (ext3): 9.1Gb (plan to adjust to 100Gb)

I'll have 5 partitions of 100Gb each (6 with linux-swap).

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For tests, I'd like to create 4 VPS with 512MB RAM and 50GB HD (or 100GB HD): 01 WinXP, 01 Win2008, 01CentOS, 01 Ubuntu Desktop

Is possible to use the Laptop like a server and use one of the O.S installed in it like a DESKTOP computer? For example: I know I could install each one of them like a "Dual-Multi-Boot", but I want to LEARN how to setup servers, etc. In this case, what is the correct form to format HD? What is the OS? Is KVM, Xen or VMWare installed first or after one specific OS?

Newbie doubts. Sorry! :)

I will wait your reply to do something.

Happy New Year!

HerrMaulwurf

Is KVM, Xen or VMWare installed first or after one specific OS?

You need an OS which is the host for KVM, XEN or VMWare. Within this OS, you can create the VPS with their own OS.

vmhosts

VMware ESXi runs its own OS. Reason most people are not using it is due to the lack of control panels and also to legally sell virtual machines using it you must license the resource used via VMware's Service Provider license agreement.

What is strange is I have seen people advertise machines cheaper than the lowest rental cost offered by VMware. So they are either not licensing correctly or losing money on every sale

DragonDF

@HerrMaulwurf

You need an OS which is the host for KVM, XEN or VMWare. Within this OS, you can create the VPS with their own OS.

Can I use CentOS ?

Or maybe Ubuntu (desktop)?

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@vmhosts

VMware ESXi runs its own OS. Reason most people are not using it is due to the lack of control panels and also to legally sell virtual machines using it you must license the resource used via VMware's Service Provider license agreement. What is strange is I have seen people advertise machines cheaper than the lowest rental cost offered by VMware. So they are either not licensing correctly or losing money on every sale

But I think there is a free and paid version of VMWare ESXi, right? Or not?

1st: best OS (I do not have preference, but people usually prefer CenOS for servers).

2nd.: kvm (need a "v" processor and I do not know if mine support), Xen or VMWare. OpenVZ does not allow Windows, so I don't want to install it.

I want to use what you (professionals) usually use. If one is a bit fast, I don't mind. Preference, one that I can have GOOD SUPPORT.

Thank you!

vmhosts

The Free version is the same but you will get limitied features. If you are just using a standalone host without shared storage then a lot of these paid for features wont be available anyway.

If you are looking to sell virtual machines then you are going to be better off with something like XEN and a control panel.

Issue is you are really going to need to get some more experience before you could offer any level of support on this type of infrastrucutre (not being harsh, but you will get a lot of stress if/wehn you run itnot problems)

Best thing to do would be to set up a local machine or even rent a server that can run XEN and have a play around with it

DragonDF

About my new laptop processor: http://ark.intel.com/products/52220

Advanced Technologies Intel® Turbo Boost Technology No Intel® vPro Technology No Intel® Hyper-Threading Technology Yes Intel® Virtualization Technology (VT-x) Yes (IS THIS GOOD FOR KVM?) Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d) No (IS THIS BAD?) Intel® Trusted Execution Technology No AES New Instructions No Intel® 64 Yes

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yomero

VT-x is good :P And no VT-d well, I think it won't affect too much.

The current trending seems to be KVM, so, try it, is the easiest IMHO

DragonDF

@VMHOSTS About your last message:

I want to use it not for sell VPS. I want to use it to LEARN, because when I contract a VPS, I have done it just for learn and made tests. But, like support was not so good, I learnt not so much.

So, I plan to install one option like KVM or Xen to use with Linux, Windows and maybe MacOS (I have a MacBook Pro and do not need to use another, I have a way to learn with it). If I can install different distros inside a VPS I can learn more and I can use (this is my plan) at the same time, 2 OS: one for "work" (windows) and the other to learn (linux).

I'd like to maintain Windows working in the Laptop for anyone of the house (or Family that visit my house) and the other I'd like to access from another place (I think I will need a static IP or another way that allow this). Team Viewer?

What do you think?

Thank you!

DragonDF

@yomero

VT-x is good :P And no VT-d well, I think it won't affect too much. The current trending seems to be KVM, so, try it, is the easiest IMHO

KVM: 01 vote

What do you think about the O.S.?

CentOS is a good option?

yomero

For KVM, use what you want, since several kernels ago is supported (2.6.26 or maybe older, dunno).

I use KVM in my Debian at home, and an Ubuntu at office.

DragonDF

Ok, yomero! I will take a try using CentOs! The server edition (little one). Tks!

earl

Just install proxmox ve.. it's bare-metal and installs in under 5min!! you can download templates from openvz site or appliances from the proxmox website.. you can also do Kvm which any iso should work..