Raided for running a Tor exit - Accepting donations for legal expenses

Shane_Elmore

Damn, that sucks man.

Wish I could donate but my budget is pretty tight right now (running a hosting business for a game I play).... best of luck!

MannDude

Dang dude, that really sucks.

I'll see what I can scratch up and I'll try to send a few bucks your way.

Microlinux

@BronzeByte said: Hosting a TOR exit isn't really smart when you run a company as TOR mostly > attracts people like that indeed...

@bamn said: Wow dude, low blow. There is a time and place for commentary. Right now is not the > time.

That's not a low blow, its an intelligent statement.

George_Fusioned

Donated €10.. I hope that reddit and HN will bring a lot more to help you out on this.

Good luck!

djvdorp

@Microlinux said: That's not a low blow, its an intelligent statement.

The best helmsmen stand on shore. - A wise man.

joepie91

@djvdorp said: The best helmsmen stand on shore. - A wise man.

Wonder if the guy who originally came up with that, was standing on the shore.

@William said: 3.: 1CPKAMtD4bcLrh8SRHfSxBBMmQQ5cqahPZ

This is mildly funny in an inappropriate way.

24khost

http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/6252/domain-auction-kvmpower.com#Item_3 Now proceeds will fund @William so hopefully It will get more bidders and go for a good cause.

ElliotJ

on a mobile connection at the moment, but ill send some funds over once im home.

keep us updated if you can @william, hope things turn out alright for you.

let_bmn

ZhangPoland1, ZhangUkraine1, ZhangAustria1, ZhangCzechRepublic1

And when did the raid occur? To be more specific, when exactly did you stop running them as exit nodes?

William

Most of them were disabled in early 2012 as the ISPs did not like my Abuse (DMCA notices mainly) and/or BW usage. The servers were probably confiscated - As all of these were VPS and not my own hardware i was neither informed nor did notice this. I still, at this very moment, run various entry and middle nodes.

Zen

Sell some of those IP's you have :)

Pretty sure I just got an acquittance to send you some bitcoins, not 100% sure if he sent it though.

Good luck.

KuJoe

@William said: The servers were probably confiscated - As all of these were VPS and not my own hardware

Are you serious? So some VPS providers probably got their servers confiscated impacting dozens or hundreds of clients?

Chan

@KuJoe said: Are you serious? So some VPS providers probably got their servers confiscated impacting dozens or hundreds of clients?

Possibly but a multi nation (Poland, Ukraine and Czech) raid seems unlikely, the Austrian one probably did get confiscated though. If the provider allowed it than it's not really Will's fault when he's just using what's he've paid for.

Good luck Will!

joepie91

@KuJoe said: So some VPS providers probably got their servers confiscated impacting dozens or hundreds of clients?

This is not uncommon for raids, regardless of the reason for the raid. I remember this being widely reported in a malware sting, where a few racks of servers or so were just ripped out, effectively blacking out an entire provider.

kbeezie

@Chan said: Possibly but a multi nation (Poland, Ukraine and Czech) raid seems unlikely, the Austrian one probably did get confiscated though. If the provider allowed it than it's not really Will's fault when he's just using what's he've paid for. Good luck Will!

:P I don't know how it is in the AUS, but in the US a user may be held liable for the actions that come thru their home/property especially if they set it up for the possibility of it happening (ie: you know the risk of what comes and goes out of a Tor exit node if you set it up yourself, as opposed to someone exploiting your server without your knowledge and then proceeding as such).

Though I'm curious, if one is running an exit node on Tor, and the content that was traded doesn't exist on any of the servers (Since it was pass thru completely), how is it possible to charge the person with distribution of child pornography anymore than they could charge the datacenter or machine provider with it? Seems like they're wanting to convict someone because they couldn't catch the original culprit.

Personally though, you had to have known this was a possible risk when running an exit node. I just hope for your sakes no traces of that crap was left on any of the machine they've confiscated (but I know in AUS they don't seem to need as much evidence as they do in the US, as I've noticed even lolicon in AUS will get you convicted).

jarland

@kbeezie said: Seems like they're wanting to convict someone because they couldn't catch the original culprit.

I'd imagine that to them it's more like this in their heads: Person stands still, blindfolded, holding gun. Person accepts jobs to pull trigger. Doesn't see his target, has complete plausible deniability, shouldn't be offering this clearly easy to abuse service. You wouldn't blame the manufacturer of the trigger, you'd blame the guy who has no idea what his gun is being used to fire at, then if you could figure out who hired him to pull the trigger, win-win scenario.

The exit node in this case is probably the only thing they know how to go after, and it's the faucet from which child pornography is flowing. It's an obvious target.

I'll repeat as said before, this isn't a statement of agreeing with the idea in any way, but my interpretation of the logic. The logic makes sense from a certain mindset, obviously not one that you or I share.

kbeezie

Know what I wonder sometimes? What if no child porn was actually involved and they're just taking down the possible outlets? It seems plausible considering that a number of legislation are passed in the guise of being against child porn (ie: record keeping regulation 2257 in the US as an example, which they tried to pass revision b under the same reason but requiring it of completely clothed models, even in non-photography related fields). Just seems to be much easier to take someone down with that excuse as a jury would rarely be sympathetic.

someJoe

damn. sorry to hear all that.... why do I get the feeling that .at police is just bored? hope this works out for you, dude.

joepie91

@kbeezie said: Personally though, you had to have known this was a possible risk when running an exit node. I just hope for your sakes no traces of that crap was left on any of the machine they've confiscated (but I know in AUS they don't seem to need as much evidence as they do in the US, as I've noticed even lolicon in AUS will get you convicted).

Be aware that this is about Austria, not Australia.

@kbeezie said: Just seems to be much easier to take someone down with that excuse as a jury would rarely be sympathetic.

And this here is a very big problem; it does, however, more commonly happen in lawmaking than it happens in conviction or targeting of individuals (to my knowledge, at least).

kbeezie

@joepie91 said: Be aware that this is about Austria, not Australia.

Noted (I think it would probably be worse if he was in AUS)

@joepie91 said: And this here is a very big problem; it does, however, more commonly happen in lawmaking than it happens in conviction or targeting of individuals (to my knowledge, at least).

I've noticed this a lot in the US at the very least, they may have something in there that emphasizes on 'protecting children', the same excuse they used early on for a number of internet related bills, when had little to do about that and more about control.

joepie91

@kbeezie said: the same excuse they used early on for a number of internet related bills, when had little to do about that and more about control.

Yes, this is very common outside the US as well. There's typically less public outrage about it, however.

kbeezie

@joepie91 said: Yes, this is very common outside the US as well. There's typically less public outrage about it, however.

Typically when it comes to the topic of CP, most people's brains just shut off and turn into avoidance, almost like a "do what you will, just don't involve or associate with me", I think the US's nature of frivolous lawsuits have somewhat made more people skeptical as such more likely to be outraged, when they're expecting to have to 'dig deeper' for a truth behind such a bill.

joepie91

@kbeezie said: Typically when it comes to the topic of CP, most people's brains just shut off and turn into avoidance, almost like a "do what you will, just don't involve or associate with me"

Haha, yes. There's an insane irrationality and taboo going on. And the moment you point that out, and even as much as give the idea that you might disagree with a raid/law/action that is supposedly against "child porn", you are immediately branded a "pedo" because "why else would you disagree?"

craigb

This discussion is great and all but let's keep this thread for donations

24khost

Right now $30.00 for the domain and If that person wins, the money will get donated and the domain goes back up for sale so that more money can be donated.

Voss

I think we should all be concerned by this and donate so that William has a legitimate chance at defending himself. I do pity him if they charge him for the possession of illegally downloaded music/movies/etc if they can't stick anything to him concerning the Tor exit node.

bamn

@joepie91 said: It's very common in Europe to seize any unrelated but 'questionable' goods during a raid or road search. These findings can result in separate charges.

USA > EU

heiska

@bamn said: USA > EU

cats > dogs

kbeezie

@heiska said: @bamn said: USA > EU

cats > dogs

Blow Jobs > Missionary

Damian

@kbeezie said: Blow Jobs > Missionary

Universal truth right there.