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How to get around latency?

How to get around latency?

concerto49concerto49 Member
edited October 2012 in General

Australia is very awful here with latency, especially to the US/EU. A lot of things lag, including RDP / VNC to servers. Any way to get around this @ LET pricing?

Any tricks people know?

Thanks.

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Comments

  • serverbearserverbear Member
    edited October 2012
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  • You can get CDN bandwidth pretty cheap nowadays.

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  • What are you actually trying to do @concerto49 ?

    If you are accessing sites internationally you can't "get around" it really. If you're on the East Coast pushing anything through a VPS in Adelaide with me won't really help unfortunately.

    Ransom IT | ɹǝpun uʍop sdʌ | vps down under | KVM in Sydney and Adelaide | OpenVZ in Adelaide
  • Does this help with accessing US services/servers? E.g. I was trying to install the OS for a KVM and the lag was unbearable.

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  • If you can figure out how to break the laws of physics. On high latency links you can change your TCP/IP parameters, but you have to have zero packet loss as well because one lost packet restarts RWIN and all those other fun TCP parameters that readjust.

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  • @FRCorey said: If you can figure out how to break the laws of physics.

    I wish I can. Our 4th submarine cable to the US that was building got canned and now we're back to square one. It sucks.

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  • A good connection to Los Angeles like to Equinix would work really good.

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  • @concerto49 said: I wish I can. Our 4th submarine cable to the US that was building got canned and now we're back to square one. It sucks.

    As of now your SOL, but once Hurricane Electric put its POP in aussy then it will be MUCH better

  • serverbearserverbear Member
    edited October 2012

    @concerto49 said: I was trying to install the OS for a KVM and the lag was unbearable.

    This shouldn't be an issue, heck I've got servers on the East Coast which are snappy when installing KVM templates (I'm in Melbourne). Who's the host?

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  • concerto49concerto49 Member
    edited October 2012

    @serverbear said: This shouldn't be an issue, heck I've got servers on the East Coast which are snappy when installing KVM templates (I'm in Melbourne). Who's the host?

    Europe is ~300-400ms latency. US central/East coast is ~250-300ms from Sydney. LA/West Coast is not nice but livable at ~190-220ms.

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  • @concerto49 said: US central/west coast is ~250-300ms from Sydney. LA/East Coast is not nice but livable at ~190-220ms.

    I think you have our coasts mixed up :) LA is on the west coast.

    A VPN won't help much unless your ISP has a bad connection once you get to the USA. You'll still have that 200ms to LA, then you'll have the 40-50ms to Central and 70ms to East. It isn't going to miraculously make your connection fast because you'll still have the latency to get to the VPS in the first place, then you'll have the latency from that VPS to the host.

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  • @vdnet said: I think you have our coasts mixed up :) LA is on the west coast.

    Argh. Yes, that's what I meant. I keep mixing it up when I type.

    @vdnet said: A VPN won't help much unless your ISP has a bad connection once you get to the USA.

    You're probably right, so no secret tricks I suppose.

    Thanks all anyway.

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  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator
    edited October 2012

    @concerto49 said: Europe is ~300-400ms latency. US central/East coast is ~250-300ms from Sydney. LA/West Coast is not nice but livable at ~190-220ms.

    I have the same latency here in Manila, as what you are experiencing. I think one difference is that we are very used to slow internet, lags, and such in our country - that's why it's still livable for me =)

    Prometeus is 300ms+ away for me, and I find my VNC session with their KVM as normal experience.

  • @jcaleb said: I have the same latency here in Manila, as what you are experiencing. I think one difference is that we are very used to slow internet, lags, and such - that's why it's still livable for me =)

    Besides latency, we only have <10mbit connection in most places and a very low bandwidth allocation. A lot less than LEB VPS.

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  • TazTaz Disabled

    Distributed content + geoip based dns redirection using couple of vps in different location can help a lot.

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  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    @concerto49 said: Besides latency, we only have <10mbit connection in most places and a very low bandwidth allocation. A lot less than LEB VPS.

    I only got 384 kbps at my home for the past 3 years. I just upgraded to 1mbps a few months ago. It's not cheap, but already affordable. 2mbps or more here are expensive.

  • @jcaleb said: I only got 384 kbps at my home for the past 3 years. I just upgraded to 1mbps a few months ago. It's not cheap, but already affordable. 2mbps or more here are expensive.

    South East Asia and Australia do same on home connection. Extremely expensive if you compare with US or EU.

    1mbps home connection cost $70-$80 in Indonesia, but 100mbps home connection just cost around $40 in Taiwan

    For latency, I prefer you to get server/vps on singapore/taiwan. Both are in the middle of Australia and US.

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  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    @jenok said: 1mbps home connection cost $70-$80 in Indonesia, but 100mbps home connection just cost around $40 in Taiwan

    Wow... Indonesia is more expensive. I pay around $20 for 1mbps. It would be $40 for 2mbps. Singapore has higher latency than US, in my place.

  • How many millisecond you get if you ping to US compared with SG ?

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  • @jenok said: 1mbps home connection cost $70-$80 in Indonesia, but 100mbps home connection just cost around $40 in Taiwan

    Well, you can't really compare countries...

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  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    @jenok said: How many millisecond you get if you ping to US compared with SG ?

    250-320ms

    US. West Coast is 150-180ms from me

  • @jenok said: How many millisecond you get if you ping to US compared with SG ?

    Yeah Singapore doesn't really help. Neither does HK (HK does sometimes, but it's erratic). From here, our asia routes are hopeless just as well.

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  • It depends on where you want to eliminate latency.

    Using GUI tools like VNC and RDP are slow even when latency is low. Terrible way to administer a server. Way too bulky.

    Since you mentioned that issue I'll stick to it.

    Learn to manage your server via the commandline.

    Once you accomplish that, we can talk about latency :)

  • @pubcrawler said: Learn to manage your server via the commandline.

    Once you accomplish that, we can talk about latency :)

    Actually, I'm using IPMI and wanted to do stuff in the bios etc. The rest of course I do use ssh. Also when doing a manual install of a dedicated server and/or KVM you can't use commandline as well - well you can to some extent.

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  • You can do commandline installs of OSes.

    IPMI has many lighter weight management tools.

    I am not a commandline nazi. Do find a lot of folks lingering with bulky tools accustomed to from Windows world (i.e. VNC, RDP, GUI :) )

  • RandyRandy Disabled
    edited October 2012

    @pubcrawler you need IMPI to fix issues if you cannot access your server via ssh

  • A Flux Capacitor could come in handy. Sorry for OT. Could not resist... ;)

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  • @jcaleb said: Wow... Indonesia is more expensive. I pay around $20 for 1mbps. It would be $40 for 2mbps. Singapore has higher latency than US, in my place.

    Same as Malaysia. ADSL connection 1mbps $37, 2mbps $44, 4mbps $47. Fiber connection 5mbps $50, 10mbps $67, 20mbps $84. Too expensive. (-_-)

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  • @budingyun said: Same as Malaysia. ADSL connection 1mbps $37, 2mbps $44, 4mbps $47. Fiber connection 5mbps $50, 10mbps $67, 20mbps $84. Too expensive. (-_-)

    At least you get the option. We don't get to choose regardless.

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  • In Mexico, it is getting cheaper. We were paying like $60 usd for a 1mbps connection, but nowadays we can pay $150 usd to have 100mbps (syncronous) @ home

  • A good connection to Los Angeles like to Equinix would work really good.

    It would not, and besides, almost all Australian ISPs will offload you to LA, rendering this more or less mundane.

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  • IPMI... hmm. GUI? Sure.

    Push as much as you can to use lightweight non-GUI interfaces. Local GUI control is fine, but technologies like VNC forget about over international water and satellite links.

    200ms latency is just half of the transaction. You need data back so a simple transaction from Asia to US West coast is more like 400ms round trip. Larger traffic due to rich interfaces are pushing tons of bits that get lost, delayed and out of order. Meaning, 600ms-1 second delays are quite typical.

    I shop for international providers that have good routes from other existing servers we have. With some I tunnel from my location into a VPS (say US West Coast) and tunnel to remote server abroad (say Tokyo).

    That works alright in some situations (text CLI). GUI pixel push though. Painful.

  • Just want to point something out a tad stronger.

    Latency doubling like I said is being kind. Often in real world (especially with clogged, QoS stomped, poor bandwidth) one way latency should be viewed as a 2-8x multiplier.

    So if ping is showing 200ms, you are looking at 400ms to 1.6 second trip lag time real use times.

  • zserozsero Member
    edited October 2012

    S3 + CloudFront + static generator? (OK, only for static-capatible content): http://vvv.tobiassjosten.net/development/jekyll-blog-on-amazon-s3-and-cloudfront/

  • Latency reduction when serving static content is simple and affordable today.

    Simple is using a CDN for static files.

    Cheap is rolling your own VPS collection out with geographic DNS. (Finding DNS provider with GeoDNS capability at low price is the biggest part of the solution).

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