(Not so )interesting (but pure BS) idea

Taz

http://simple-webhosting.eu/

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1174610

I am not related with them in any way. But this idea sounded like a plan, is it something like chroot? (dreamhost vps style!)

GetKVM_Ash

This caught my eye as well, at first glance i thought it would just be CloudLinux but it seems they have wrote their own control panel etc.

gsrdgrdghd

You don't get IPv4

Damian

To save system resources and the hard work of setting up an internet server, the VPS'es have access to shared services outside their VPS, like a web server and database server. This makes their platform as easy and economic as shared web hosting, but as versatile as VPS hosting.

Sounds dangerous

GetKVM_Ash

Not really, shared hosting accounts share the same web and DB server, its not really any different :P

And welcome back :)

Damian

@GetKVM_Ash said: Not really, shared hosting accounts share the same web and DB server, its not really any different :P

I meant.. if you're not using your VPS for websites, then what do they expect people to use it for? Other than VPN...

@GetKVM_Ash said: And welcome back :)

Thanks!

PAD

This just a shell, right? Shells are old school but still sold a lot.. this isn't inventive AT ALL.

Alex_LiquidHost

@PAD said: This just a shell, right? Shells are old school but still sold a lot.. this isn't inventive AT ALL.

Says you get full root access.

Taylor

@LiquidHost said: Says you get full root access.

>

5.98 for "pro" that gives you full root.

http://simple-webhosting.eu/#pages/moreinfo

PAD

@LiquidHost just a shell/jail - I've seen this type of stuff before its not revolutionary it ISN'T a virtual server by far, you're just getting a slice of unsecured cake and access to some cherries a few feet away.

dnom

Virtualized environment Virtualization based on OpenVZ makes our shared web hosting accounts as powerful and secure as VPS hosting. Every customer has their own Virtual Private Server, a virtual environment that provides the functionality of a dedicated server. This is more secure than traditional shared web hosting, and allows for more customization, for the same price.

I know OpenVZ is not considered as a virtual environment by some. But it's good enough for most things I do.

Alex_LiquidHost

@PAD said: @LiquidHost just a shell/jail - I've seen this type of stuff before its not revolutionary it ISN'T a virtual server by far, you're just getting a slice of unsecured cake and access to some cherries a few feet away.

http://simple-webhosting.eu/#pages/moreinfo

You get root access and ipv4 on the 6 euro plan. Just a normal ovz VPS. But I guess with custom coded panel.

lennartack

Hi, I am from Simple-webhosting.eu and would like to answer some of the questions on this page.

• What do you expect people to use their VPS for if there's a shared web server? PHP and CGI scripts run inside the VPS'es, and in case of Pro accounts customers may install their own services like streaming servers. Most security threats for shared web hosts come from user scripts, and that is what it solves. We had a hacked account last week and it has never been easier to stop the spam mail flood ($ vzctl stop ctid).

• Is it just a shell/jail? No, OpenVZ provides isolation at the kernel level and virtual network interfaces. Hence it's called "operating system level virtualization".

If you want root access for a basic account, sign up and ask support, we're currently testing it!

Damian

@lennartack said: If you want root access for a basic account, sign up and ask support, we're currently testing it!

So you give out openvz containers, but the openvz containers don't have root access inside their own containers? Or am I missing something here?

lennartack

That's right. The reason for that is that certain binaries and libraries, as well as the MySQL socket file are shared among containers in order to accomplish fluent co-operation with the web server. We also want to prevent unknowing users from breaking their websites.

jarland

Sounds like fancy wording. It's a VPS or it's not a VPS. It's shared hosting or it's not shared hosting. You can dress up a VPS and tell me that my shared hosting has dedicated resources thanks to such isolation, but all I hear is "We'd rather not optimize our system for maximum performance for all, but rather give everyone a small slice and let them screw it up."

Maybe I'm just reading into it wrong.

Taz

So this is what you guys have, OVZ-VPs with shared (Free) sql server. While this is not managed so users will need set everything from scratch (breaks the basic purpose of shared hosting). So if they gets hacked for sutpid server security, all you have to do is point your finger to your clients and say, "you are stupid and it is your fault".

Sounds like fancy words for a simple ovz vps.

PAD

This is a shell/jail - You guys can say it isn't all you want but IT IS.

I've offered a shell/jail service before, the point is :

You have access to external MySQL - Shared with other clients. You have access to external Webhosting - Shared with other clients. You have shell access to a node/vps/whatever else - bunch of services like above are blocked but you can use it for whatever, coding, development.

And this sort of stuff is old school but its still sold by many providers, this was before virtualization came about to be commercially available.

This is nothing unique or special, oh and you get a panel with Shell/Jail too - there is no difference here. The maybe slight difference is you're not offering ipv4, cutting down your cost even more. Lol.

lennartack

Call it a shell/jail if you want, I call it a VPS.

Thanks for your feedback. Just two more comments:

all I hear is "We'd rather not optimize our system for maximum performance for all, but rather give everyone a small slice and let them screw it up."

This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

So if they gets hacked for sutpid server security, all you have to do is point your finger to your clients and say, "you are stupid and it is your fault".

If it's the customer's fault it's the customer's and if it's the host's it's the host's. A VPS/jail doesn't change that fact, and we do not incorrectly point fingers at customers. The only difference is that now only the customer who got hacked is the victim, and with traditional web hosting the whole server could go down.

Alex_LiquidHost

@lennartack said: This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

2MB if there is no OS installed.

Taz

@lennartack said: If it's the customer's fault it's the customer's and if it's the host's it's the host's. A VPS/jail doesn't change that fact, and we do not incorrectly point fingers at customers. The only difference is that now only the customer who got hacked is the victim, and with traditional web hosting the whole server could go down.

BS. I have done shard hosting for more then 3 years. If your server is properly secured and optimized, (mod_security for example), 95% time clients wont get hacked. Even if they do, that won't be able to take control of the whole server. So you can cut that crap out. If I am buying a shared hosting, I will not be responsible for server security but only the security off my site. What you have is basic unmanaged vps with some fancy term, with service lower than average LEB. All you are doing as I have pointed above.

You must put a note that, users of your so called "V shared hosting" will have to be familiar with linux.

Cut the crap and man up.

lennartack

Haha, okay one more comment. Debian is installed by default. The init process takes about 1 MB ram, and the other is taken by the kernel.

Taz

@lennartack said: This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

Time for you to hit openvz and linux wiki.

Taz

@lennartack said: Haha, okay one more comment. Debian is installed by default. The init process takes about 1 MB ram, and the other is taken by the kernel.

What about user process? That take memory out, what about php scripts? Mail server, Apache and the rest?

jarland

@lennartack said: This is not really true. VPS'es are perfectly capable of sharing system resources. The burst RAM feature allows us to give customers a lot of space, and if no one else uses the CPU you can use its full capacity. OpenVZ containers require only about 2 MB of ram so it doesn't cost a a lot either.

I could say all of that with shared hosting, except the 2MB overhead. Plus one well configured web server > 35 however the heck configured web servers.

lennartack

@NinjaHawk said: Even if they do, that won't be able to take control of the whole server.

But they will be able to overload the server and send a lot of spam, forcing you to shut down the mail system. Have you never had these kind of issues during your three years of experience?

@NinjaHawk said: Time for you to hit openvz and linux wiki.

There's only one linux kernel running if you use OpenVZ, that of the host node. The 2MB is based on my own observations and may be a little more, but show me the corresponding wiki page detailing OpenVZ ram usage if I am completely wrong.

@NinjaHawk said: What about user process? That take memory out, what about php scripts?

They also use memory if you have shared web hosting, so there is no difference in that case.

@NinjaHawk said: Mail server

Sendmail is a setuid root binary (so no difference compared to normal shared hosting) and the sendmail daemon is not running in VPS'es.

@NinjaHawk said: Apache

There's only a web server running outside the containers (which forwards request to cgi binaries inside containers). Have you actually read any of the service description?

Taz

@lennartack said: But they will be able to overload the server and send a lot of spam, forcing you to shut down the mail system. Have you never had these kind of issues during your three years of experience?

You do not need a vps to control that. Iptables can take of mass emailing. If you have ever used Cpanel, this feature is actually built in (limit hourly email), if another panel, use strong firewall rules, block port 25 , suspend the client or simply disable mailin ability.

Edit: What makes you think that ovz won't get hacked and send spam? (Unless you have throttled mailing via iptables.

@lennartack said: What about user process? That take memory out, what about php scripts?

Typically the user can use limited resource on a shared hosting level, you do not need vps to control those settings. /but my reply was towards your 2mb usage comment.

@lennartack said: Sendmail is a setuid root binary (so no difference compared to normal shared hosting) and the sendmail daemon is not running in VPS'es.

Not everyone will use sendmail.

@lennartack said: There's only a web server running outside the containers (which forwards request to cgi binaries inside containers). Have you actually read any of the service description?

I did read your description. And your descritions are confusing.

do you know that single ovz container can crush your whole node if it is not managed properly? While with latest technology and less crowded server, basic shared hosting can't. Take a look at cloud linux+cagefs. Stop making argument that won't make sense. Plus what stops a user to install apahce and mysql on your so called "Vshared" hosting where they have "root" access? You could have atleast went dream host vps way (chrooted debian install only).

jarland

@NinjaHawk said: Plus what stops a user to install apahce and mysql on your so called "Vshared" hosting where they have "root" access?

If something does, I suspect the container is nothing more than a gimmick seeing as how your required functions are outside of it and if your uses inside were then limited so strictly, well...why have it.

Taz

@jarland said: If something does, I suspect the container is nothing more than a gimmick seeing as how your required functions are outside of it and if your uses inside were then limited so strictly, well...why have it.

But what stops a user from installing own server, mail server and more? Taking the fact that you have "full root access" and you can run apache on different port (If they are blocking port) same can be done for sql and everything else.

Alex_LiquidHost

Pointless to discuss, made an account and sent an email to get the root permission as promised. We will see what it is.

gsrdgrdghd

lol @NinjaHawk i don't understand your hate/bashing and editing the title.

@lennartack is there actually anywhere an explanation of what your site is supposed to do and how its supposed to work? All i can see are sliders to adjust disk quota and monthly traffic and a describtion that sounds like normal shared hosting.