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Setup Fees
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Setup Fees

HostNunHostNun Member
edited April 2014 in Help

I'm still kinda new here so sorry if this is common knowledge, but why aren't setup fees allowed?

I had to pay my dedicated server provider setup fees for the server itself and for the two times I bought additional IPs from them, so...

Thanked by 1infolink
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Comments

  • Low End offers only. Currently a price point must be met

    VPS must not exceed USD$7/month recurring on monthly billing, with no setup fee
    

    (http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/15263/new-lowendtalk-rules-and-guidelines)

    Apparently, this was to prevent people from doing "$2/mth with $20 setup fee", or something. It doesn't make much sense to me though, as it can deter a heap of abusers and help starting hosts.

    Thanked by 1linuxthefish
  • Did you notice any other provider(s) charge setup fees for a VPS? They don't because unlike a dedicated server, there is nothing to "set up" for a VPS. The process is all automated from billing to VM creation... It is the support that costs manpower.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

  • I think it's also to help mitigate against loss by clients with summerhosts etc

    Thanked by 10xdragon
  • derpderp Member

    Excuse my ignorance, but don't most providers offer automated "instant" activation? Any VPS I've ever ordered was up within seconds if not minutes. What is there for them to set up for me that I should pay for in those situations?

    If I ordered a vps and asked them to configure the disk layout in a specific way, or add a bunch of extras that required someone to do a bunch of stuff, I'd expect a setup fee.

    If I ordered a dedicated server I can envisage a person casually strolling through the datacenter with my new shiny server in-hand, ready to rack, cable, power it up, and do all of the network configuration on their end. For that I'd expect a setup fee to be applied.

    I have no idea why offers here aren't allowed to have setup fees though. I'm sure plenty of others know. I for one wouldn't mind paying setup fees, if a real human being actually sets something up for me. If my new order was automatically provisioned so that I could be online in seconds, there'd be no order if there was a setup fee.

    Thanked by 20xdragon Dylan
  • @0xdragon said:
    Apparently, this was to prevent people from doing "$2/mth with $20 setup fee", or something. It doesn't make much sense to me though, as it can deter a heap of abusers and help starting hosts.
    @Virtovo said:
    I think it's also to help mitigate against loss by clients with summerhosts etc

    Exactly.

    A setup fee for a VPS, especially if it's WHMCS-SolusVM, is just unnecessary. For dedicated servers, it's a different thing.

    Thanked by 30xdragon namhuy Dylan
  • whilst its "unnecessary" in terms of labour/effort at provisioning time it certainly didnt take zero effort in getting all that automation in place. i dont mind paying setup costs on some services and from a providers pov im sure it would deter some of the abusers...

  • namhuynamhuy Member
    edited April 2014

    How about no setup fee but some sort of security deposit, the deposit will be returned after 2-3 months or so, I guess hit/run won't stay that long

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @namhuy said:
    How about no setup fee but some sort of security deposit, the deposit will be returned after 2-3 months or so, I guess hit/run won't stay what long

    I can imagine the absolute carnage something like that would bring.

  • B1g4B1g4 Member

    Also, any one paying semi-annually/annually shouldn't need to pay any setup fees, even if you try to justify having one for a monthly billing.

  • @hwdsl2 said:
    Did you notice any other provider(s) charge setup fees for a VPS? They don't because unlike a dedicated server, there is nothing to "set up" for a VPS. The process is all automated from billing to VM creation... It is the support that costs manpower.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    There are a few who do charge setup fee for vps for example Contabo but the number of such providers is decreasing day by day.

  • namhuy said: How about no setup fee but some sort of security deposit, the deposit will be returned after 2-3 months or so, I guess hit/run won't stay what long

    Mostly how Cloud works. You need to make a deposit.

  • GIANT_CRABGIANT_CRAB Member
    edited April 2014

    Hi guys,

    Check out my offer:

    E7-9999

    1TB RAM

    10000TB RAID1010101010 SSD

    ONLY $1/MONTHLY

    setup fee of only $1000 billion

  • SpiritSpirit Member
    edited April 2014

    said: I'm still kinda new here so sorry if this is common knowledge, but why aren't setup fees allowed?

    Actually I think we are pretty reasonable here. If you noticed only those your packages with setup fee where price + setup fee was above $7 were removed. Keep things you advertise here within $7 per month limit, don't try to bend rules or expect from forum to adapt to your own business model and Kingdom of Heaven shall be yours.

    Thanked by 10xdragon
  • @derp said:
    Excuse my ignorance, but don't most providers offer automated "instant" activation? Any VPS I've ever ordered was up within seconds if not minutes. What is there for them to set up for me that I should pay for in those situations?

    That's true. A 'setup fee' might not be the right term for what I'm getting at. That term is simply what the text field says in the billing software I use. What I mean is, when the prices are so low I consider it... what might be called a 'courtesy' fee or a 'hand shake' maybe. The small one-time fee is a kind of firm hand shake or courtesy on your part as in the offers are so inexpensive that the least you can do to return the favour and let me know you're serious is pay a $1 setup fee. It's really not asking very much at all, lol. One dollar!

    It might be more likened to a 'tip' or a 'suggested donation' if 'setup fee' is too hard on the eyes. Maybe I should put out a tip jar instead. Someone make a tip jar module for WHMCS.

    tl;dr a small courtesy fee signifies a certain level of seriousness in the transaction that is otherwise absent

    @GIANT_CRAB said:
    ONLY $1/MONTHLY

    setup fee of only $1000 billion

    so give it a limit then

    same as the revered $7 apogee

    limit 'setup fees' to $1 or something (lol)

    then the ultra low end providers can do like $0.30 setup fees to offset the annoying paypal fees and the uppity unbelievablely overpriced rip off providers can charge $1 setup fees and receive endless complaints for their exorbitant f***in rip off $1 setup fees how dare they this is an outrage everybody wins

    Thanked by 20xdragon sz1hosting
  • @HostNun said:
    then the ultra low end providers can do like $0.30 setup fees to offset the annoying paypal fees.

    Paypal fees don't magically vanish after the first payment. That's every invoice. That's the cost of doing business, and you should factor that into the package prices you offer.

    Thanked by 10xdragon
  • HostNunHostNun Member
    edited April 2014

    @hwdsl2 said:
    Did you notice any other provider(s) charge setup fees for a VPS? They don't because unlike a dedicated server, there is nothing to "set up" for a VPS. The process is all automated from billing to VM creation... It is the support that costs manpower.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    don't get all marxist labour theory of value on me bro

    Thanked by 10xdragon
  • SpiritSpirit Member
    edited April 2014

    HostNun said: so give it a limit then

    same as the revered $7 apogee

    limit 'setup fees' to $1 or something (lol)

    There is limit.

    same as the revered $6 apogee
    limit 'setup fees' to $1 or something (lol)

    = $7 all together :P

    It's not problem about fees, but higher plans not suitable to be posted here.

    Thanked by 10xdragon
  • HostNun said: tl;dr a small courtesy fee signifies a certain level of seriousness in the transaction that is otherwise absent

    Why not simply rise the package price then instead of hidden fees...? Don't punish your good customers. If you can't handle all the abuse then get out of the (low end) business, it's hardly news that this is what happens on low cost hosts.

    Thanked by 10xdragon
  • VPNVPN Member

    @GIANT_CRAB said:
    Hi guys,

    Check out my offer:

    E7-9999

    1TB RAM

    10000TB RAID1010101010 SSD

    ONLY $1/MONTHLY

    setup fee of only $1000 billion

    Where do I sign up?

  • @AThomasHowe said:
    Why not simply rise the package price then instead of hidden fees...? Don't punish your good customers. If you can't handle all the abuse then get out of the (low end) business, it's hardly news that this is what happens on low cost hosts.

    Wait, what? Hidden? Punish? Abuse?

    I was talking about the negligibility of a $1 setup fee that is not hidden in any sense whatsoever and is mostly there to confirm good faith and to offset PayPal fees etc. It's a way of conveying a certain kind of respect for the provider. This constitutes a form of punishment to the fragile, immutable Low End Ecosystem?

    & your advice is for me to get out of the low end business if I can't handle the 'abuse' of people refusing to pay an audacious $1 setup fee? lmao

    P.S. Even with auto-provisioning there are still a number of administrative tasks that need to be done when a new client arrives. Not everything is on blind autopilot and different things may require attention and intervention depending on the context of the order. Sometimes the auto-provisioning fails too, etc. Hi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value meet the attention economy.

  • So why does it have to be separate from the original pricing? Why can't you just try and price abusers out of the market?

    And I know about the costs of labour, don't be patronising. it's not the customers fault your automated systems mess up is it?

  • I got you about abusers problem, setup fee or not it's your business model, I have nothing to against it, but I don't like to pay any extra fee. Say $11.11/year plus $1.11 is $12.22/year for 1Gb ram is reasonable enough, but $1.11 over $11.11 is about 10% over the original cost.

  • I propose a cage match.

    19th Century Labour Theories of Value vs. The 21st Century Attention Economy

  • So every other provider gets alone fine without a set up fee but yeah, of course economics prove that you can't get by without them. I am sure all the big hosts out there are all stuck with 19th century ideals of economics.

  • Well, customer is always right so I fold.

    Ergo,

    I hereby confess to having maliciously upset the balance of the Low End Ecosystem with my abusive scheme to swindle customers out of $1 based in the spurious concept of 'setup fees'. I hereby acknowledge that the Heretical Fee I spoke of was not instantiative of the labour signified by its nomenclatural conceits—in this case, the labour involved in provisioning and setting up Virtual Private Servers—and was disruptive to the Immutable Customs and Traditions of the Low End Habitué. I hereby recant my previous beliefs and henceforth offer my full adherence to, and reverence for, the latest 19th century neoreactionary labour theories of value. I do this in the steadfast knowledge that my Time was not worth the extra $1 and that it was sadistic of me to think otherwise. If someone would be so kind as to PM me a link to the Low End Penance guidelines, I would be much obliged. Thank you.

    Thanked by 2ricardo project10
  • @HostNun said:
    Well, customer is always right so I fold.

    Ergo,

    I hereby confess to having maliciously upset the balance of the Low End Ecosystem with my abusive scheme to swindle customers out of $1 based in the spurious concept of 'setup fees'. I hereby acknowledge that the Heretical Fee I spoke of was not instantiative of the labour signified by its nomenclatural conceits—in this case, the labour involved in provisioning and setting up Virtual Private Servers—and was disruptive to the Immutable Customs and Traditions of the Low End Habitué. I hereby recant my previous beliefs and henceforth offer my full adherence to, and reverence for, the latest 19th century neoreactionary labour theories of value. I do this in the steadfast knowledge that my Time was not worth the extra $1 and that it was sadistic of me to think otherwise. If someone would be so kind as to PM me a link to the Low End Penance guidelines, I would be much obliged. Thank you.

    Can I buy some pot from you?

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @HostNun said:
    Well, customer is always right so I fold.

    Ergo,

    I hereby confess to having maliciously upset the balance of the Low End Ecosystem with my abusive scheme to swindle customers out of $1 based in the spurious concept of 'setup fees'. I hereby acknowledge that the Heretical Fee I spoke of was not instantiative of the labour signified by its nomenclatural conceits—in this case, the labour involved in provisioning and setting up Virtual Private Servers—and was disruptive to the Immutable Customs and Traditions of the Low End Habitué. I hereby recant my previous beliefs and henceforth offer my full adherence to, and reverence for, the latest 19th century neoreactionary labour theories of value. I do this in the steadfast knowledge that my Time was not worth the extra $1 and that it was sadistic of me to think otherwise. If someone would be so kind as to PM me a link to the Low End Penance guidelines, I would be much obliged. Thank you.

    You could have set up 18 VPS in the time it took to type that.

    Shove that in your setup fee and smoke it.

    Thanked by 10xdragon
  • souensouen Member

    This reminds me of the way some organisations charge a nominal fee for programs with limited slots. The premise is that by paying a small fee, participants show serious intention to attend rather than reserve space then not show up, when someone else could make better use of the resource. It's acknowledgement that the organisers put time and work to get the program on its feet and a way of showing appreciation.

    Possibly there is less sympathy for companies, in that they're out to make money (not charity), customers pay them to run the show and expect them to eat the costs of abuse as part of running business. Sometimes the boundaries are blurred, e.g. LES apparently ran at loss as a project by one provider for the LE* community.

    The other downside from a customer viewpoint is it's one more thing to check before purchase and setup fees have a negative association with many consumers as yet another means for unscrupulous companies to trick people into pay extra (and may lead to them to wonder what other "hidden" fees are involved even if it's all listed out.) As irrational as it sounds, $12.22 looks more attractive to some than $11.11 + $1.11, if only because it includes everything for one price so it's a "better" deal.

    Up to the provider, I guess. Personally I don't mind as long as the order form shows the costs and total clearly before payment.

    Thanked by 2HostNun 0xdragon
  • @souen said:
    This reminds me of the way some organisations charge a nominal fee for programs with limited slots. The premise is that by paying a small fee, participants show serious intention to attend rather than reserve space then not show up, when someone else could make better use of the resource. It's acknowledgement that the organisers put time and work to get the program on its feet and a way of showing appreciation.

    Yes! Very well said, thank you. I hadn't thought of it in terms of limited slots yet, but that's also true for us in that we have no interest in expanding into a Mega Church. Once a certain financial threshold (as of yet undecided) is hit we will close new signups entirely and only re-open if/when we happen to drop below it.

    @souen said:
    As irrational as it sounds, $12.22 looks more attractive to some than $11.11 + $1.11, if only because it includes everything for one price so it's a "better" deal.

    Yeah, true.

    @serverian said:
    Can I buy some pot from you?

    Sorry mister, I'm a Chaste BBW Vegan Straight Edge.

    @Nekki said:
    You could have set up 18 VPS in the time it took to type that.

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @HostNun not at all clear what that picture is meant to say. It appears to be an adult Spongebob Squarepants (minus he squarepants) recovering from anal rape, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to my comment.

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